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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:44 am
by mux
Just so you're not just hearing it second hand: yes, we have 10 cars driving around with extender packs already and one 'ultra-leaf', i.e. the 40kWh+extender+3ph charging (all the upgrades we're offering right now). We're installing about one more car per week now and ramping up to full production soon (tm). Over the past few months we've been ironing out lots of bugs and we are pretty confident in the product by now. All that's left is type approval and documentation before we can call it final.

It's going to take a while before we can offer this in the US and Canada. Our insurance expressly excludes US/CA because of liability concerns, so we'd have to offer it uninsured as a DIY at-your-own-risk kit, but even then it might be iffy. Best is probably to find a full producer, installer that licenses our tech or something like that.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:53 am
by Oilpan4
When can I expect your ipo?

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:57 am
by SalisburySam
mux wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:44 am
Just so you're not just hearing it second hand: yes, we have 10 cars driving around with extender packs already and one 'ultra-leaf', i.e. the 40kWh+extender+3ph charging (all the upgrades we're offering right now). We're installing about one more car per week now and ramping up to full production soon (tm). Over the past few months we've been ironing out lots of bugs and we are pretty confident in the product by now. All that's left is type approval and documentation before we can call it final.

It's going to take a while before we can offer this in the US and Canada. Our insurance expressly excludes US/CA because of liability concerns, so we'd have to offer it uninsured as a DIY at-your-own-risk kit, but even then it might be iffy. Best is probably to find a full producer, installer that licenses our tech or something like that.
I think selling a kit in the US (cannot speak for Canada) as an uninsurable item, DIY or otherwise, is a non-starter. Of the 8 US states I have lived in, all require certain minimum insurance coverage to register a vehicle.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:03 pm
by SalisburySam
AdventureMuffin wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:12 pm
Nissan just sent me a recall for changing out the lithium ion battery bonding plates. Toying with the idea of seeing if they cant replace the battery while they are in that deep.
Just had that recall applied to my 2012 SL. Took about 45 minutes to accomplish with the LEAF already on the lift for a brake fluid replacement and overall inspection. So I don't think the recall required the tech to get in very deep.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:09 pm
by mux
SalisburySam wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:57 am
I think selling a kit in the US (cannot speak for Canada) as an uninsurable item, DIY or otherwise, is a non-starter. Of the 8 US states I have lived in, all require certain minimum insurance coverage to register a vehicle.
Vehicle insurance is completely different from product insurance. This is often confused when doing mods on a car, but you can sell lots of modifications to cars without product insurance and still have a perfectly insurable car - everything from body kits to exhaust tips to audio equipment, all of which you'd think is a potential safety or liability hazard but apparently isn't - or at least isn't classified as such.

So no, vehicle insurance concerns aren't a thing for us. It's purely a product insurance thing; what if something goes wrong with the product causing either product damage, further vehicle damage or damage to third parties? That's the kind of insurance nobody wants to take on for the US and Canada because of particular tort laws.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:18 pm
by Oilpan4
We can do pretty much anything we want to our electric cars here in the US.
No insurance BS red tape.
I'm in new Mexico and they don't even do vehicle inspections here.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:00 pm
by mux
Well, that's what we have to investigate. Our insurance agents have been very clear about it; don't sell anything in the US or Canada, it's a minefield. The type of product we would sell is well outside the types of products that have well-defined regulatory alignment between the EU and NAFTA.

We're of course still looking into going about it slightly more clandestinely. Worst case we can go the vape route; sell different parts separately for 'other purposes' and let people DIY it all the way. For that, though, we first need sufficient production volume.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:52 am
by Marktm
mux wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:00 pm

We're of course still looking into going about it slightly more clandestinely. Worst case we can go the vape route; sell different parts separately for 'other purposes' and let people DIY it all the way. For that, though, we first need sufficient production volume.
I sure seems you are building a successful business model. It does seem you are getting traction with a methodology that works as opposed to The Fenix Power model that is so difficult to implement (I have a minimal down payment as I sincerely hope they can pull off a miracle!). Selling the complex VCM/CAN equipment, a compliant set of high voltage connectors, with a step by step conversion instruction (with plenty of liability exclusions :mrgreen: ), could be what we need here in the U.S.

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:26 pm
by Oils4AsphaultOnly
mux wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:00 pm
Well, that's what we have to investigate. Our insurance agents have been very clear about it; don't sell anything in the US or Canada, it's a minefield. The type of product we would sell is well outside the types of products that have well-defined regulatory alignment between the EU and NAFTA.

We're of course still looking into going about it slightly more clandestinely. Worst case we can go the vape route; sell different parts separately for 'other purposes' and let people DIY it all the way. For that, though, we first need sufficient production volume.
How about the original http://openevse.com/about-us.html route of selling the circuit boards and components and having us solder the thing ourselves? My 2nd EVSE came from them that way. You can ask the folks at openevse.com to see how that worked out for them (legality wise).

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:59 am
by mux
That's exactly what I'm alluding to, but the legality is something you can only evaluate on a case-by-case basis. Still need a legal person to figure that out for us.