Daklein
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm

AdventureMuffin wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:37 pm
Suggestions on where to purchase battery.
I just got back from a little trip yesterday and today, and I brought home a 62 kWh pack!! I found a salvage yard on car-part.com showing they had an 18 and 19 pack, but wasn't clear what they were. They sent me pictures of the labels once they had them at their yard. One was a 40 and the other a 62. :D I said I wanted the blue dot one, paid them and left to go get it.

Pictures here, including Leafspy screenshots: https://photos.app.goo.gl/cdNQUvgKKQvGX3wG8

serial #000015 62 has a broken HV connector, should be no big deal to replace if you have another connector assembly, have to open it up to replace it. But no dents on the cover. Leaf spy looks good? It had chalky white overspray or paint on the top of it. Maybe just dust or dirt, but maybe overspray from marking structural parts underneath a car for crash testing? Maybe the HV connector broke from the main cable being pushed rearward in a crash test? Or easily just broken during disassembly.

#000010 62 has some bigger dents on the top, must have touched the cells, should open it to check it. Looked like it might been tipped over on the ground? Leaf spy looks funny? Every other cell is hi lo hi lo, only 10-15mv, but why? Maybe some special testing. I can't think why it would look that way.

Any of these probably should be opened to make sure the dents are just superficial. Mine (serial # 000006 ) has some probably superficial dents on the top cover, I may open it to check, I'm not sure. And Leafspy looks similar to #015

The 62 packs report approximately 171 ahrs!! 97soh!! My pretty good 24 pack has only 62 ahrs!

The 40 looks like it had some other testing done on it. It has a hole from a pressure relief valve that got knocked off on the left side top cover. The other side still has a relief valve. It has some good dents on it too. The controls connector looks like the earlier 11-12 connector, but has the PTC heater plug like 13+. I didn't know the pinout for the 11-12 connector, so I didn't plug in to it, sorry. I'm not sure what sort of testing would need to have pressure relief on the case. I'd keep that in mind.
AdventureMuffin wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:37 pm
Is that true too for the 2013 Leaf? Plenty of room left for an installation of a 62 KWH battery?
The 62 packs are a bit taller, and there could be some mechanical work to fit it. The rear side mounts are higher, vs. the 24/30/40 pack side mount tabs are all the same height I think. The Plus pack looks like it goes lower in the car, I see the front two mounts look different also. The front tabs are up a little higher like the rear side ones. I think my 24 front mount tabs are more flush with the bottom of the pack. It looks like the ground clearance is lower on the plus model, comparing pictures of 2018, vs. 2019 plus. The plus model you can see battery pack covers hanging below the rocker panel. It may require spacers and longer bolts on the first & second side mounts, to get all the mounts on the same plane.

I'll measure it up and figure out more when I unload the new one soon, and look again under my car and measure there. I hope it will fit as is, like the 40's fit in mux's gen 1 projects. It should fit, unless the Plus model underfloor structure is different? If not, I'll be making it fit somehow, modify either the car or the pack.
Last edited by Daklein on Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2014 Leaf S Plus :o (12/2019 62kWh swap!)

mux
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:52 am
Delivery Date: 13 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 6177

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:37 am

Considering he's got a 62 pack now, I'll be working with Daklein to figure out the 62kWh battery swap, until we get a hold of one of those packs ourselves. The scrapyard doesn't do international shipping themselves, and it's basically impossible to figure out how to ship these packs at reasonable cost without somebody on the spot doing most of the heavy lifting, so I have little hope we'll get the other 62 pack that's sitting there (dented... quite badly...)

Actual development of conversion kits for anyone to use is going to be something we might start in Q1 2020, but no promises. To be clear, this is going to happen, if you find a pack and you know you want to do this upgrade, by all means buy one, but it may take half a year until you have the CAN bridge and safe, well-tested firmware. Even then, this will all be incredibly at-your-own-risk stuff because we have no ability to do any checking if everything's properly installed, etc. and we do not have any insurance abroad. Just to get all of this out of the way.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1731
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:24 pm

mux wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:37 am
Considering he's got a 62 pack now, I'll be working with Daklein to figure out the 62kWh battery swap, until we get a hold of one of those packs ourselves. The scrapyard doesn't do international shipping themselves, and it's basically impossible to figure out how to ship these packs at reasonable cost without somebody on the spot doing most of the heavy lifting, so I have little hope we'll get the other 62 pack that's sitting there (dented... quite badly...)

Actual development of conversion kits for anyone to use is going to be something we might start in Q1 2020, but no promises. To be clear, this is going to happen, if you find a pack and you know you want to do this upgrade, by all means buy one, but it may take half a year until you have the CAN bridge and safe, well-tested firmware. Even then, this will all be incredibly at-your-own-risk stuff because we have no ability to do any checking if everything's properly installed, etc. and we do not have any insurance abroad. Just to get all of this out of the way.
I would like to do a pack swap fall 2020 at the earliest. Buying a crashed leaf from up to 800km away and towing it home is not really a problem to me.
Don't know if I will go with a 40kwh car or 62kwh yet.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

mux
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:52 am
Delivery Date: 13 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 6177

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:45 am

By fall 2020 we'll have kits available that just work.

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:33 am

Could this approach deter the Fenix Power initiative? I'm quite sure at this point that I've lost my early subscription down payment :o (not really surprised!).

Still hope?
https://www.fundable.com/fenix-power
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1731
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:10 am

I have always thought the Fenix solution was way too pipe dreamy.
Now if a company who already manufactures liquid cooled battery packs came out and said "we are going to make a really cool leaf battery upgrade" then yeah I could see it happening then.

I have always believed that the key to making a better leaf battery starts with the original battery design.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15064
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:16 am

Daklein wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm
AdventureMuffin wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:37 pm
Suggestions on where to purchase battery.
I just got back from a little trip yesterday and today, and I brought home a 62 kWh pack!! I found a salvage yard on car-part.com showing they had an 18 and 19 pack, but wasn't clear what they were. They sent me pictures of the labels once they had them at their yard. One was a 40 and the other a 62. :D I said I wanted the blue dot one, paid them and left to go get it.

This is the place, www.advanceautosalvage.com/index.html and I talked with Dennis, he'll probably be the guy answering the phone. Nice guys, typical junkyard. They currently have two more 62s and a 40, I guess another two came after. More may or may not come in. Once or twice a year they might get this sort of thing. Probably other local yards may get parts too. He said he would keep the inventory list on the website (their website or car-part.com) up to date, if it's listed there, they probably still have it.

These are salvage, and have been handled like salvage parts, not new in box, but could be fine. They are from disassembled development or test cars from nearby in Smyna, TN. They could have had a boring life as 'emissions' fuel economy testing cars testing driving range running on a dyno, or they could have had anything done to them. As opposed to a typical salvage auction crash car where you know it was crashed or flooded or whatever.

Pictures here, including Leafspy screenshots: https://photos.app.goo.gl/cdNQUvgKKQvGX3wG8

serial #000015 62 has a broken HV connector, should be no big deal to replace if you have another connector assembly, have to open it up to replace it. But no dents on the cover. Leaf spy looks good? It had chalky white overspray or paint on the top of it. Maybe just dust or dirt, but maybe overspray from marking structural parts underneath a car for crash testing? Maybe the HV connector broke from the main cable being pushed rearward in a crash test? Or easily just broken during disassembly.

#000010 62 has some bigger dents on the top, must have touched the cells, should open it to check it. Looked like it might been tipped over on the ground? Leaf spy looks funny? Every other cell is hi lo hi lo, only 10-15mv, but why? Maybe some special testing. I can't think why it would look that way.

Any of these probably should be opened to make sure the dents are just superficial. Mine (serial # 000006 ) has some probably superficial dents on the top cover, I may open it to check, I'm not sure. And Leafspy looks similar to #015

The 62 packs report approximately 171 ahrs!! 97soh!! My pretty good 24 pack has only 62 ahrs!

The 40 looks like it had some other testing done on it. It has a hole from a pressure relief valve that got knocked off on the left side top cover. The other side still has a relief valve. It has some good dents on it too. The controls connector looks like the earlier 11-12 connector, but has the PTC heater plug like 13+. I didn't know the pinout for the 11-12 connector, so I didn't plug in to it, sorry. I'm not sure what sort of testing would need to have pressure relief on the case. I'd keep that in mind.
AdventureMuffin wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:37 pm
Is that true too for the 2013 Leaf? Plenty of room left for an installation of a 62 KWH battery?
The 62 packs are a bit taller, and there could be some mechanical work to fit it. The rear side mounts are higher, vs. the 24/30/40 pack side mount tabs are all the same height I think. The Plus pack looks like it goes lower in the car, I see the front two mounts look different also. The front tabs are up a little higher like the rear side ones. I think my 24 front mount tabs are more flush with the bottom of the pack. It looks like the ground clearance is lower on the plus model, comparing pictures of 2018, vs. 2019 plus. The plus model you can see battery pack covers hanging below the rocker panel. It may require spacers and longer bolts on the first & second side mounts, to get all the mounts on the same plane.

I'll measure it up and figure out more when I unload the new one soon, and look again under my car and measure there. I hope it will fit as is, like the 40's fit in mux's gen 1 projects. It should fit, unless the Plus model underfloor structure is different? If not, I'll be making it fit somehow, modify either the car or the pack.
$$
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15064
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:34 am

Marktm wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:33 am
Could this approach deter the Fenix Power initiative? I'm quite sure at this point that I've lost my early subscription down payment :o (not really surprised!).

Still hope?
https://www.fundable.com/fenix-power
No. "most" people won't buy something that has no warranty
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oilpan4
Posts: 1731
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:57 pm

Typical junk yard beating the hell out of everything they remove.
I think I will stick with buying a whole wrecked car.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

OakLeaf
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:00 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2012
Location: Telford, PA

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:57 pm

mux wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:45 am
By fall 2020 we'll have kits available that just work.
Would these kits be for all model year Leafs?

Would these kits include the batteries that go in the hatch, new cells for refurbishing the main pack, or some other combination?

We have a 2012 SL that's down to 7 bars now and knowing what would be needed for the kit ahead of time would allow the next year to prepare.

You're doing great work and it's always good to see what you're up to in the video updates.

Congrats on your recent wedding as well!
2012 Leaf SL - 75K miles since 11/2012 - No P3227 Update - 7 Bars / 36.48AHr / SOH 55.61% / Hx 48.12%

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