Daklein
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:55 pm

Daklein wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm
I'll measure it up and figure out more when I unload the new one soon, and look again under my car and measure there. I hope it will fit as is, like the 40's fit in mux's gen 1 projects. It should fit, unless the Plus model underfloor structure is different? If not, I'll be making it fit somehow, modify either the car or the pack.
I got the new 62 kWh pack unloaded, after some garage clearing & shuffling of projects, and beefing up my dolly for holding the pack. The dolly had been marginal with the lightweight 24 kWh pack. The big pack is heavier for sure, the loader could not lift it directly, only curling the bucket allowed lifting it off the truck. The loader capacity is supposed to be 900#, so I estimate it's about 900 pounds.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZYvNpjkFY9RDCv718 Pictures of unloading, and welding the dolly.

It looks like there is 40mm of height added in the base of the 62 kWh pack, the extra height hangs out the bottom of the car. (Pictures I see of Plus cars show the pack extending below the rocker panel) The claimed ground clearance is the same, maybe the rear axle is the lowest point already? The two front mounts (near the HV connectors), and rearmost side mount have raised platforms. The HV connectors are moved up from the bottom of the pack, so they will be at the same height as before in the car (the stiff main HV cable will be the same). The forward and center side mounts are one long mount with 4 bolts, with height near the bottom of the pack as the 24-40 packs all have. The Plus cars must have a different frame rail stamping that extends down the extra 40 mm. That would be a reasonably minimal change for manufacturing, just weld in a different rail part(s) to the floor pan. The rear support bracket holes look like they have the same spacing from the bottom of the pack, and the two holes are 40mm vertical spacing as before. The height from the top of the front and rear mount points (with the 40 mm raise) to the top of the pack looks very similar to 24-40 packs: 243mm to the rear hump, 164 to the front hump. (not the total pack height, the height from the mounting plane).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kkMU62Cr5Y42JHo39 Pictures of measuring the new pack, checking measurements on the car, sketches measurements and adapter spacer

What it will take, starting at the front of the pack:
- Front mounts will work the same as before, same bolts.
- Grounding straps may work by flipping them around, so they go down from the frame to the 62 pack, instead of upward from the frame to the 24 pack.
- Forward / center side mounts: Make a spacer from a 40mm square or rectangular tube between the existing frame rail and the new 62 pack. Front bolt location is the same, use a longer bolt. The three remaining bolts on the 62 will use longer bolts, into nuts or threaded plate fished through the frame rail (like in typical trailer hitch installs). There is a hole in the rear of the frame rail to fish them in through. You could almost use the existing center bolt location from the 24 pack, but it falls right at one of the structural channels of the 62 pack, about an inch from the rearmost bolt location on the 62 pack.
- The rear side mount uses two bolts, the inner location measures the same as before, and the outer one lines up with an existing hole in the frame of my 2014 car. There is room to fish a nut or threaded plate into the frame there from the rear suspension mount.
- Rear support brackets, could try to buy brackets from a plus car, or the existing brackets should line up offset by one hole. I could fish a threaded plate into the rear of the pack, adding a third hole on the pack, existing bracket bolting to the upper two holes. There is a 1-inch hole at the rear corners of the pack, between the outer and inner walls of the pack. Also could add a plate on the outside of the bracket, extending down to the bottom hole, so there would be three bolts holding it.
- Playing on the CAN bus will need to follow. ;) (help, help) :)

I have not looked at a Plus car, could any Plus owners take pictures of the sides of the battery mounting? Even with the covers on may help, but even better would be with the covers removed if you enjoy crawling around under your car. And also I wonder if there is anything different in front of the pack on Plus cars, maybe I want a skid plate sort of bar across in front of the pack.
Last edited by Daklein on Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:31 pm

I thought the 62kwh. Battery only weighed "around 300kg" at least that's what I had read. I was really curious to see how they got 22kwh more battery in there over the 40kwh battery with supposedly an insignificant weight increase.

Going up to 900lb shouldn't change anything as I have an old 4,400lb Toyota pallet hand truck.

I may need a little suspension upgrade if this battery is nearly 50% heavier than the existing pack.

The suspension on the 2011 is already kind of stiff like Nissan wasn't sure exactly how much the battery would weigh when they spec'ed the springs. But I don't think they ever planned on a roughly 900lb batt.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:59 pm

Press release from Fenix states:
After working with our reservation customers, our investors, and our team, we’ve got the funding and plan finalized, and we are ready to get this project started and on the road!

After careful consideration and planning, we’ve finally selected and secured a space to start getting everything ready to re-energize our customers’ vehicles! Without further ado, here’s a peek at the place where it’s all going to happen:
Did I read that correctly.
They are just now going to "start getting everything ready"?

Full article here,
https://fenix.systems/news/fenix-news/2 ... w-facility
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

mux
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:52 am
Delivery Date: 13 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 6177

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:07 am

Well, that's going to take another year at least then.

Daklein
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:53 pm

Daklein wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:55 pm
I have not looked at a Plus car, could any Plus owners take pictures of the sides of the battery mounting? Even with the covers on may help, but even better would be with the covers removed if you enjoy crawling around under your car. And also I wonder if there is anything different in front of the pack on Plus cars, maybe I want a skid plate sort of bar across in front of the pack.
We took a drive today and enjoyed free Chademo at the Nissan dealer. And, they had a Plus out front! Awesome!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YSYsXAdkR6J5CNzt8 Pictures of Leaf Plus pack mounting (with the covers on)

The Plus cars have the same structure to start with, and U shaped channels are tacked on below the existing frame rails where the 24-40 batteries mount. The lateral connections between the frame rail and the rocker panel also have U shaped channels added below and connected to the battery mount U channel.

I am getting excited about this! It would still be neat to see a Plus with the covers off, see if there's anything added around the front of the pack especially.
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

lorenfb
Posts: 2276
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:38 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:31 pm
I thought the 62kwh. Battery only weighed "around 300kg" at least that's what I had read. I was really curious to see how they got 22kwh more battery in there over the 40kwh battery with supposedly an insignificant weight increase.
Where did these weight numbers come from, i.e. the Plus weighs >300 lbs more than the 40 kWh? That's basically 2 addition adult passengers.
The Plus' total battery weigh is about 900 lbs, over 400kg.

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/elec ... specs.html
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:16 pm

Just speculation, like the possible 9 to 11kw obc.
I wasn't ready to believe it till some one dropped a 62kwh battery on a set of scales.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Daklein
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:44 pm

Thanks loren for the specs page, that's the first I found any actual numbers, and I've been wondering if they do anything for the extra weight. shows curb weights as follows for an S, and an S Plus, 347 pounds extra. Just the battery and a little structure that's extra, so yeah, looks like it must be 300+ pounds more.
Base Total (lbs.) 3,433 3,780

I'm wondering if it will be worth doing something to handle the always extra 350 pounds. Do they change the GVWR also? Yes, they did, the capacity stickers on salvage auction cars show the Plus with an extra 254 pounds of total weight capacity, table below. (good way to confirm you're looking at a Plus model car, or lookup the VIN works also). Not sure where that extra capacity may come from; different tires, brakes, springs, jounce bumpers, etc, or additional testing and engineering judgment. I'm not an expert on vehicle mass engineering, but I know it's more complicated than we'd think. In any case, the Plus car loses about 100 pounds of cargo capacity technically.

. . . . . . . . . S . . . . S Plus
GVWR . . 4497 4751 gross vehicle weight rating
GAWR FR 2344 2436 gross axle weight rating front
GAWR RR 2209 2359 gross axle weight rating rear

I'm wondering also about ground clearance, if anything was done for protecting the front of the pack. Like on the early Tesla S with road hazards hitting the front of the pack, they added or beefed up a beam in front of pack. MS is a little different with the variable ride height scraping the ground, but that's my concern. Will my hobby project 62 in 2014 be as good as the actual 2019 Plus in this respect.

The specs page confirms the same total height, other early reviews said height was .02 inches higher (same height), so they probably changed at least rear springs to get back to original curb trim height. But they didn't jack the whole car up by an inch or something. I don't see ground clearance listed on that page. Somewhere else I saw it claimed to be the same ground clearance for both S & SPlus, 5.9 inches maybe. There must be some other part that is already lower than the 40mm dropped battery pack? Is the Plus really a 4.3 inch ground clearance car? Watch out for 2x4s! :lol:
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14221
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:39 am

lorenfb wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:38 pm
Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:31 pm
I thought the 62kwh. Battery only weighed "around 300kg" at least that's what I had read. I was really curious to see how they got 22kwh more battery in there over the 40kwh battery with supposedly an insignificant weight increase.
Where did these weight numbers come from, i.e. the Plus weighs >300 lbs more than the 40 kWh? That's basically 2 addition adult passengers.
The Plus' total battery weigh is about 900 lbs, over 400kg.

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/elec ... specs.html
Some of that will be due to structural differences, wheels (no more wheel covers on S) but battery pack likely gained at least 200 lbs.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:05 am

An increase of 200 to 300lb or >100kg depending on which unit you prefer and a battery pack that hangs lower a suspension upgrade may be in order. At least on the rear.
As the rear suspension likes to bottom out when I put 3 bags, 240lb of concrete bags in the car (1 up front and we in the back).
First order of business would be to check the shocks as my leaf does have 72,000 miles.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

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