DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2097
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Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Route AC over battery

Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:42 am

Does anyone on this board actually know what or how the ENV200 forced air cools its electronics and/or battery?

It is just cool air over the battery case? or something more integrated?
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
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Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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goldbrick
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
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Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Route AC over battery

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:00 am

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/10 ... nditioning

This article says that the AC just routes cold air over the battery but I seem to remember mux saying that the only entrance into the battery pack were 2 sealed coolant lines. Ie, there is no air blown into the pack, but there is an evaporator and/or condensor inside the battery pack and refrigerant is routed into the pack instead where it either evaporates or is compressed to create a heat pump. That and a very small fan seem to be enough to make a big difference in battery life on the NV-2000. Too bad Nissan didn't put this in the Leaf.

alozzy
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Route AC over battery

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:37 pm

According to this article, the "active" cooling in the e-NV200 is only used for charging:

https://insideevs.com/news/322347/heres ... tery-pack/
However, this cooling system isn't designed to cool the cells, but rather to "ensure optimum charging conditions at all times." More specifically, Nissan says that e-NV200 incorporates a "bespoke cooling pack that operates automatically during quick charging."
Then later in the article:
It does not direct air at the cells/pouches, but rather towards the various electronics/controllers within the pack.
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Oilpan4
Posts: 1731
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Route AC over battery

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:14 pm

jlv wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:19 am
Sounds like some one just needs to cut some holes in a leaf battery, run some A/C to it and find out.
Too bad all those really smart engineers at Nissan didn't see this obvious solution.
The engineers saw the obvious need for cooling. The bean counters shot it down.
Management and bean counters lay the basic design for cars, the engineers get stuck trying to build the car with what the people who have MBAs and accounting degrees say they can use and spend.

When engineers run a company like tesla you get a cool car that's fast and lasts a long time with shaky and questionable financial fundamentals.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1731
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Route AC over battery

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:17 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:42 am
Does anyone on this board actually know what or how the ENV200 forced air cools its electronics and/or battery?

It is just cool air over the battery case? or something more integrated?
Yeah Mux posted a picture or a link to a picture that showed a cutaway inside the nv200 battery.
The nv200 had a horizontal heat exchanger on the back hump of the battery and 2 fans.
Ridiculously simple. I believe the working fluid was a water-glycol mix.
"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT". -someone who I offended and is unable to produce the facts in question.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Route AC over battery

Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:39 am

but it sounds like it was effective
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

coulomb
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:08 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 200445
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Route AC over battery

Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:28 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:17 pm
Yeah Mux posted a picture or a link to a picture that showed a cutaway inside the nv200 battery.
Was it this one?
The nv200 had a horizontal heat exchanger on the back hump of the battery and 2 fans.
The void mux discussed seems to be at the front, near where the cables and A/C pipes connect, not at the back hump. I don't see how the radiator in one corner (if I understand correctly) evens out the temperature of the cells at all. Maybe it's because the pack is sealed; blowing cooled air anywhere might tend to end up everywhere, at least eventually.

From that post:
Image
2012 Leaf with new battery May 2019. New to me June 2019.

brunohill
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Oct 2017
Location: VK3

Re: Route AC over battery

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:10 am

There is some ducting to achieve circulation.
https://youtu.be/Oah-UB3d2_8

coulomb
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:08 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 200445
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Route AC over battery

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:04 am

Ah, thanks! I can see it in these frame grabs:

Image

The above shows its rough position and size (unfortunately mostly obscured by the gentleman in the foreground), and the below shows it in position:

Image

It looks to me that the cool air is cooling a lot more than "just the electronics" (I can't find that reference in a hurry).

It goes to show that a decent thermal management system doesn't have to take up a whole lot of space, or be particularly expensive or difficult to work into the design.

Please, someone, design a retrofit for various Leaf batteries! Though I can imagine that a retro-fit would be a lot harder than designing from scratch. Maybe whole e-NV200 packs can be fitted to Leafs with some effort? One problem would be supply; there must be (wild guess) 10:1 Leafs to e-NV200s.

[ Edit: Please pardon the quality of the frame grabs; I didn't realise it was at 480p quality till after I grabbed and uploaded the frames. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
2012 Leaf with new battery May 2019. New to me June 2019.

WetEV
Posts: 4003
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Route AC over battery

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:05 am

brunohill wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:10 am
There is some ducting to achieve circulation.
Image
That video is scary. No gloves.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

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