gncndad
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Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:54 am

I know I'm a single data point, but my first summer with my 2015 LeafS, I naively left it garaged, plugged in, for 6 weeks. With no ill effects.
What SHOULD have happened to my car? :D
2015 LeafS
2018 Toyota Prius Four Touring
2018 Toyota Prius Two
2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid Limited

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Stanton
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Location: Plano, TX
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:38 am

gncndad wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:54 am
I know I'm a single data point, but my first summer with my 2015 LeafS, I naively left it garaged, plugged in, for 6 weeks. With no ill effects.
What SHOULD have happened to my car? :D
Are you talking about the 12v battery? If your "first summer" means it was "brand new", then it was too "fresh" to see any ill affects. If you would do that now (5 years later), it would be dead in a week.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery with Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

gncndad
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:02 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Feb 2016
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:14 pm

Car had 10k on the odo, still at 12 bars.
2015 LeafS
2018 Toyota Prius Four Touring
2018 Toyota Prius Two
2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid Limited

GerryAZ
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:27 pm

I don't know when the change was made, but my 2011 would not turn on the DC-DC converter to charge the 12-volt battery if there was anything (such as Bluetooth OBDII adapter) that kept the car's computers from going completely to sleep. I suspect leaving it plugged in would also keep the computers from sleeping. If everything went to sleep, it would turn on the DC-DC converter for a few minutes every 5 days. That was adequate to keep the 12-volt battery charged whenever I parked it long term at my office or the airport.

The 2015 seemed to monitor the 12-volt battery and charge it when necessary even if I inadvertently left the OBDII adapter plugged in while parked. The 2019 has significantly higher power off draw from the 12-volt battery than the two previous cars (I suspect the radio/navigation system remains somewhat active), but it turns on the DC-DC converter as needed to keep the 12-volt battery charged. All three cars are (were) frequently parked for extended time without being plugged in at either my office or the airport.

I am probably in the minority, but I have NEVER connected an external 12-volt battery charger to any of my LEAFs. The original batteries in the 2011 and 2015 both lasted longer than typical for OEM car batteries in my climate. When each failed, I replaced it with a yellow-top Optima deep cycle battery. In each case, I just plugged the car in to charge the traction battery and new 12-volt battery overnight. I will buy the same Optima battery and follow the same initial charging procedure when the OEM battery fails in the 2019.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:48 pm

gncndad wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:54 am
I know I'm a single data point, but my first summer with my 2015 LeafS, I naively left it garaged, plugged in, for 6 weeks. With no ill effects.
What SHOULD have happened to my car? :D
Your 12 volt battery was run down. When plugged in, the car is using more power than normal. Unplugged, the car goes into low power mode in several hours. Also when unplugged, an algorithm will kick on to boost the 12 volt battery on a regular interval.

You probably just got lucky with a still new battery. I keep thinking that Nissan would improve the process but in my S Plus, the connected voltage is still in the low 12's. Way too low for lead acid.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:52 pm

They did improve it, in that the 12 volt battery doesn't seem to get low enough to die, since about 2015. It is just kept chronically undercharged.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:52 pm
They did improve it, in that the 12 volt battery doesn't seem to get low enough to die, since about 2015. It is just kept chronically undercharged.
But the issue still exists. It maybe better but imm, only because it couldn't be worse. No 2019's have died (that I have heard) but a few 2018's have and yeah, some will be user error but it happens too much to blame all the incidents on that.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BrockWI
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Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:52 am

I can say with our 13 S it is a bummer, we have had it happen three times in the last three month and it is totally random. These most recent onn was while out running errands, third stop at a store, came out and it was dead, once at work and once when we woke up it was dead and hadn't charged the traction battery becasue the 12v had died. I do at least once a week, usually twice, charge the 12 battery and even replaced it last summer again with the same larger 51R that has 1.5 times more capacity than the 35N. It is the randomness of it that totally drives me nuts.
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
lost first bar @ 72k
@100k miles - 57.3Ahr - 87.62SOH - 84.13Hx - 241GID
3.3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP - 1 ton ASHP
2003 VW TDI 210k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
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lorenfb
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:14 am

BrockWI wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:52 am
I can say with our 13 S it is a bummer, we have had it happen three times in the last three month and it is totally random. These most recent onn was while out running errands, third stop at a store, came out and it was dead, once at work and once when we woke up it was dead and hadn't charged the traction battery becasue the 12v had died. I do at least once a week, usually twice, charge the 12 battery and even replaced it last summer again with the same larger 51R that has 1.5 times more capacity than the 35N. It is the randomness of it that totally drives me nuts.
You should measure the stand-by current draw on the battery, 3+ minutes after locking the vehicle. It should be about 50-60ma (.050 - .060 amps).
Your TCM ECU (telecommunications) may be randomly powering-on
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

BrockWI
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:46 am

:) I have tried that and only one time a few years ago I saw about a 2 amp or 2100mA draw. I thought that was odd, turn the car on and off and after it settled it was back to the normal 60mA. In retrospect, I should have tried to trace what it was at the time. The part that bugs me is with even a 50 Ah 12v battery a 2 amp load shouldn't be a problem for a few hours.
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
lost first bar @ 72k
@100k miles - 57.3Ahr - 87.62SOH - 84.13Hx - 241GID
3.3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP - 1 ton ASHP
2003 VW TDI 210k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
EVSE level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40

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