LeftieBiker
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:44 pm

BrockWI wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:49 pm
I don't believe the 13 S model has a TCU, I thought I looked in to that initially and was told the S's didn't have them.

No, they don't - I didn't know you had an S. Maybe it is that 'other TCU' then.
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Stanton
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:06 am

BrockWI wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 pm
I believe you are correct, running the battery dead to many times may have killed it. It ran for 40 minutes, which would put it about 6Ah, that's not going to cut it. I will charge it back full again and try one more time but it looks like a new battery is in order. You may not have read, but I do regularly charge it. As far as bulk charging in two hours, that SHOULD be the case if the battery was kept at a decent capacity as it should just be topping off the battery, but alas it is not.

If only just getting a 12v battery would fix this, but I have had the problem of the Leaf running the 12v dead at least once a month since the car was new. This is actually the third battery now, this one has lasted the longest at 3.5 years, but I have been more diligent about charging it regularly. Whatever is running it dead once in a while is basically killing them when that happens.
I feel your pain, but there's a reason this thread is called Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium: swap that thing out and you won't have to worry about being stranded again (I'm going on 6 years now)!
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BrockWI
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:15 am

While I am all for lithium batteries how would simply swapping out a lead acid for a lithium battery stop the Leaf from running the battery dead? My problem isn't the battery or type of battery it is that the Leaf will randomly leave something running that runs the 12v battery down and kills it. I suppose a lithium with a good BMS would shut off the battery protecting itself, waiting to be charged back up, but at that point I would still have to jumpstart the car the same way, unless I am missing something?
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lost first bar @ 72k
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Stanton
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:56 am

BrockWI wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:15 am
While I am all for lithium batteries how would simply swapping out a lead acid for a lithium battery stop the Leaf from running the battery dead? My problem isn't the battery or type of battery it is that the Leaf will randomly leave something running that runs the 12v battery down and kills it. I suppose a lithium with a good BMS would shut off the battery protecting itself, waiting to be charged back up, but at that point I would still have to jumpstart the car the same way, unless I am missing something?
The "phantom drain" in the Leaf is exacerbated by the poor 12v charging algorithm...and nothing will change that. However, putting in a Lithium battery that won't "die" when repeatedly cycled 20% (or whatever) to 90+%--like a Lead Acid will--gives the charging system a better chance to keep it "alive". The only compelling reason not to do the swap is $$ (like a lot of things).
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery with Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am

Totally makes sense. Thanks
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
lost first bar @ 72k
@100k miles - 57.3Ahr - 87.62SOH - 84.13Hx - 241GID
3.3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP - 1 ton ASHP
2003 VW TDI 210k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
EVSE level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40

knightmb
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:43 pm

Stanton wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:06 am
I feel your pain, but there's a reason this thread is called Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium: swap that thing out and you won't have to worry about being stranded again (I'm going on 6 years now)!
5 Years for me, battery has worked flawless, the car is always turn key on and off, never any weird states in between. :D
2013 Leaf SV

LeftieBiker
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:52 pm

Does your lithium battery have a BMS?
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:08 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:52 pm
Does your lithium battery have a BMS?
Actually it does. Any automotive versions I've seen also come with it built in for safety reasons I assume. My wife and I having identical years and models, she has been through 2 leads in the past 7 years (one donated from mine when I changed to Lithium) If you run the Lead through the 20 hour discharge test only score 9AH in my experience, well below my 20AH Lithium. I leave my ODB bluetooth plugged in and running 24/7 and have all of that time since. Battery is always +13 volts if I do a random spot check even in sub freezing weather. As I said many times before, why didn't Nissan just use a lithium for the 12 volt system, but I guess an extra +$200 to cost couldn't be justified. :?

[edit: They = Nissan]
Last edited by knightmb on Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lorenfb
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:11 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:52 pm
Does your lithium battery have a BMS?
It should have, as any Li ion battery system requires it, i.e. even just two cells in series.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

LeftieBiker
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:55 pm

knightmb wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:08 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:52 pm
Does your lithium battery have a BMS?
Actually it does. Any automotive versions I've seen also come with it built in for safety reasons I assume. My wife and I having identical years and models, she has been through 2 leads in the past 7 years (one donated from mine when I changed to Lithium) If you run the Lead through the 20 hour discharge test only score 9AH in my experience, well below my 20AH Lithium. I leave my ODB bluetooth plugged in and running 24/7 and have all of that time since. Battery is always +13 volts if I do a random spot check even in sub freezing weather. As I said many times before, why didn't they just use a lithium for the 12 volt system, but I guess an extra +$200 to cost couldn't be justified. :?
The reason I asked is that those of us in the small EV community have found that a typical Chinese-built BMS is as likely or more likely to malfunction and cause a pack failure as is long-term degradation. This varies by manufacturer, of course: I have two Chinese "Ping" brand packs, one from 2014 and one from 2015. The first was built by Mr. Ping himself, before he sold the company. The second was built by the company after he sold it -although he remained there running it. Both packs are still good, with the older one being the better of the two. Still, BMS failure or malign malfunction is common enough that relatively few lithium packs "live" to be as old as mine. My point - and I do have one! - is that a small lithium automotive type 12 volt pack isn't necessarily going to be bulletproof either: you are essentially spend a big chunk of cash to trade the risk of damage from extreme low voltage for the perhaps-smaller risk of having the thing self-destruct... This is why I recommend AGM batteries for Leaf use: they are tough enough for the job, but usually only cost 50-100% more, not several times as much. Still, I wouldn't suggest a $400 AGM battery either, because of the risk of it getting killed by the car.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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