LeftieBiker
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:33 pm

Do you top off the water in the 12 volt FLA battery often? I don't understand why it overflowed so much. Maybe it's just a coincidence, and that is Winter salt water from the roads...?
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Stanton
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:40 am

knightmb wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:06 pm
Well today, I had to replace the under shield of the Leaf because she hit an animal and damaged/broke the shield. To my surprise, all that acid from the 12v battery has rusted out the frame and destroyed the paint on it. I'm going to see if I can get that rust off and repaint it, but when I checked my car out of curiosity, my frame was still in flawless paint condition.
Yet another advantage: 12v Lithium!
Thanks for posting.
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knightmb
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:59 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:33 pm
Do you top off the water in the 12 volt FLA battery often? I don't understand why it overflowed so much. Maybe it's just a coincidence, and that is Winter salt water from the roads...?
My wife never tops off (maybe that's why the battery only last about 3 years before needing replacement). I suspect just the bumps in the road causes some to splash up and then run down the side of the battery once it leaks through the caps on top of the battery. I could always tell from the top that some acid was leaking down, but never really worried about it since I though it was just landing on the shield perhaps. Turns out I was wrong. I am actually going to check a friend's leaf (2015, they are still using lead acid) to see if the same issue exist for them.
Last edited by knightmb on Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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knightmb
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:16 am

This is another picture, from the top with the new under-shield back on. The red box is where the drain from the pan the battery sits on points down towards, the blue box is where all that acid was landing.

Image
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:45 am

I would definitely, post haste, install an AGM battery in that car!
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knightmb
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:12 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:45 am
I would definitely, post haste, install an AGM battery in that car!
Yeah, I think I can talk her into that at least. I have a lot of friends and family that drive various Leaf model years, but they all have the standard lead acid battery, I was only able to convince one of them to try Lithium after using Lead Acid for years, the others have stayed with the dealer provided lead acid battery. I am curious now if they all have the same rusting issue or if this is only certain brands of battery used, some leaking more than others, etc.
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gncndad
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:50 pm

knightmb wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:59 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:33 pm
Do you top off the water in the 12 volt FLA battery often? I don't understand why it overflowed so much. Maybe it's just a coincidence, and that is Winter salt water from the roads...?
My wife never tops off (maybe that's why the battery only last about 3 years before needing replacement). I suspect just the bumps in the road causes some to splash up and then run down the side of the battery once it leaks through the caps on top of the battery. I could always tell from the top that some acid was leaking down, but never really worried about it since I though it was just landing on the shield perhaps. Turns out I was wrong. I am actually going to check a friend's leaf (2015, they are still using lead acid) to see if the same issue exist for them.
Huh? There should be no acid leaking through caps. I believe any vent on the battery is to vent gas, not liquid. Are you sure you didn't have a battery at some point that was cracked? If acid is left lingering, it can cause the damage you're observing.

As another single data point: I've just passed 20 months on a Bosch 51R AGM battery, Pep Boys, $150. With a 1.25a BatteryTenderPlus charger, it charges to 100% in 6-8 hours, so it is showing no signs of degradation.
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Stanton
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:59 pm

gncndad wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:50 pm
As another single data point: I've just passed 20 months on a Bosch 51R AGM battery, Pep Boys, $150. With a 1.25a BatteryTenderPlus charger, it charges to 100% in 6-8 hours, so it is showing no signs of degradation.
And the point of this thread is I've now gone more than 80 months on my 12v Lithium battery...with no battery tender/top-off charging/etc...and it still floats at over 13v. By the time you buy 2 more of those $150 batteries, you could have bought a decent Lithium battery (built-in BMS, etc.).
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:18 pm

Stanton wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:59 pm
gncndad wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:50 pm
As another single data point: I've just passed 20 months on a Bosch 51R AGM battery, Pep Boys, $150. With a 1.25a BatteryTenderPlus charger, it charges to 100% in 6-8 hours, so it is showing no signs of degradation.
And the point of this thread is I've now gone more than 80 months on my 12v Lithium battery...with no battery tender/top-off charging/etc...and it still floats at over 13v. By the time you buy 2 more of those $150 batteries, you could have bought a decent Lithium battery (built-in BMS, etc.).
I should have added that I haven't trickle-charged the AGM battery for quite some time, so it seems the traction battery is keeping it adequately charged without the need for external charging. Warranty on the AGM? 4 years replacement (not pro-rated)...so, if it fails at 47 months, I'll get a new 4-year battery for free.

Does the $500 lithium battery have a 12-year warranty? Doubtful.

I'm normally pro-active, and "overkill" has been my pattern with auto maintenance. It's doubtful the traction battery will last that long anyway, so for me, that $500 lithium battery is still overkill I'm not willing to embrace.
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GerryAZ
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:39 am

The acid residue issue is why I replace flooded-cell batteries with AGM as soon as they deteriorate enough to start gassing (in all applications--motorcycles, watercraft, cars, and trucks). Vapors from battery gasses condense on the top of the battery and other surfaces in the vicinity, causing corrosion. AGM batteries do not vent gas unless severely overcharged long enough to build up excessive pressure and open the safety relief valve. Also, AGM batteries do not spill if tipped over (even if the case gets cracked) and tolerate occasional deep discharge better than flooded-cell batteries.

I periodically ask the local battery store about lithium replacement for one motorcycle which has an alarm system that drains the battery when parked if I forget to connect a charger (even AGM does not tolerate repeated deep discharging). They sold lithium motorcycle batteries several years ago for a short time, but had too many problems. I saw a poster for lithium motorcycle batteries when I was in a couple weeks ago. I asked about them and found out they are starting to sell them again (different brand than before), but only by special order for now. I may try one for that motorcycle, but they told me that deep discharge might impact the internal BMS system (I don't understand why, but that is what I was told).
Last edited by GerryAZ on Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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