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Stanton
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Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:54 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:39 am
I periodically ask the local battery store about lithium replacement for one motorcycle which has an alarm system that drains the battery when parked if I forget to connect a charger (even AGM does not tolerate repeated deep discharge). They sold lithium motorcycle batteries several years ago for a short time, but had too many problems. I saw a poster for lithium motorcycle batteries when I was in a couple weeks ago. I asked about them and found out they are starting to sell them again (different brand than before), but only by special order for now. I may try one for that motorcycle, but they told me that deep discharge might impact the internal BMS system (I don't understand why, but that is what I was told).
That last comment suggests they don't have a deep (pun intended) understanding of the subject, but I know from your many years of forum participation that you can probably figure it out. Remember that Lithium batteries can survive a much deeper discharge than any lead acid counterpart, and I have never had an issue with my mine (no matter how long I've operated in "accessory mode" or let my car sit at the airport). I would give it a try on your motorcycle...and post back with your experience.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:31 am

Stanton,

I edited my post slightly and will likely try one when I need a new battery for that bike. I asked for technical information about the batteries they now offer by special order, but they did not have any so I will search online. I am also interested in learning what brands of 12V lithium batteries people have had good experience with.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

LeftieBiker
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:11 am

The biggest problem with lithium batteries is that they always come with a BMS, and these Chinese BMS units are at least as likely to fail as is a lead acid battery over a few years. (Yes, some will not fail and the batteries will be fine for 10 years or more.) It's a real problem in the world of small EVs. We are sold on the idea that a BMS is vital if you want a lithium battery, but they are also the most likely failure point. I didn't understand at first why the man who converted my Vectrix to Leaf cell power didn't install a BMS (he did install balance leads) but now I do. It should be possible to make a 12 volt battery replacement using either 3 Leaf cells charged to full, or 4 cells charged to about 85%, with no BMS. The trick is to pick cells that are near perfect and well matched (in fully charged voltage) with each other.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

knightmb
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414897
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:51 pm

I had a chance to check a friend's Leaf (2015 SV) mentioned below. They had some very, very, light acid damage rust, not much to worry about. But I noticed they were using a completely different brand battery than the one's that Nissan provide, they were using a Duracell (yeah, the same company that makes AA batteries at the store :shock: ) The battery itself showed no signs of any acid leak around the top or sides. They told me it was replaced shortly after purchasing their Leaf in 2015 after the 12v from the dealer died within months, they got battery replaced and sent the bill to the dealership for the battery it seems, they didn't want the dealership battery. :lol:
knightmb wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:59 am
I am actually going to check a friend's leaf (2015, they are still using lead acid) to see if the same issue exist for them.
2013 Leaf SV

Oilpan4
Posts: 1724
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:57 pm

My leafs next 12v battery will be of the lead acid variety. Most likely the biggest AGM I can make fit in the battery area.

Oh and there's only like 3 lead acid battery manufacturers left in the United States. So all the dozens and dozens of brands you see, they were likely made at one of those 3 factories.
That's Johnson controls, exide and east penn.
JC and exide are 80 to 90% of the market.

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:09 pm

I had good service from Optima yellow top (deep cycle) AGM batteries in the 2011 and 2015 so I plan to put one in the 2019 as soon as the Nissan OEM battery starts showing signs of deterioration. The original 51R size is adequate for my use so I will stay with that size to avoid the need for changes to the battery box or hold-down hardware.

I will probably try a lithium battery in one motorcycle when it needs a new battery.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

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Stanton
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Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:52 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:31 am
I edited my post slightly and will likely try one when I need a new battery for that bike. I asked for technical information about the batteries they now offer by special order, but they did not have any so I will search online. I am also interested in learning what brands of 12V lithium batteries people have had good experience with.
Here are the two manufacturers of 12v Lithium batteries I recommend the most (good for motorcycle and car):

https://www.lithiumpros.com/ (I have had the C925 in my Leaf for years...and I did not pay "list" price)
https://antigravitybatteries.com/ (I use their "Battery Tracker" product and their ATX20-HD would work well in a Leaf)

These are American designed and made products.
It's easy to fit these smaller batteries in the Leaf.
Enjoy!
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:12 pm

These are American designed and made products.
AFAIK there are no lithium battery cells being manufactured in the US for sale in the US. They may use cells from Asia, or cell components bought from an Asian manufacturer and assembled here.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
Stanton
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Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
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Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:25 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:12 pm
These are American designed and made products.
AFAIK there are no lithium battery cells being manufactured in the US for sale in the US. They may use cells from Asia, or cell components bought from an Asian manufacturer and assembled here.
Well...you are wrong (not that it invalidates my point that these are not Chinese designed products from Chinese companies). Why do you have to reply (negatively) to nearly every one of my posts in this thread?
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

knightmb
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414897
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:41 am

Stanton wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:25 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:12 pm
These are American designed and made products.
AFAIK there are no lithium battery cells being manufactured in the US for sale in the US. They may use cells from Asia, or cell components bought from an Asian manufacturer and assembled here.
Well...you are wrong (not that it invalidates my point that these are not Chinese designed products from Chinese companies). Why do you have to reply (negatively) to nearly every one of my posts in this thread?
An American company that comes to mind:
Tesla makes them at the Gigafactory in Nevada. Now before someone says it, yes Panasonic is doing it, but still technically being made in the US. :mrgreen:
2013 Leaf SV

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