Forged Rays Volk Wheels installed - stock wheels are HEAVY!

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Skywagon

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
429
Location
Chandler, AZ
I posted in the other wheel topic about changing my wheels to lighten up rotating mass. The photo of one of my stock wheels on a scale shows how heavy they are (21 lbs):

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I went back and forth on which wheels I wanted for the car debating cost vs. weight savings vs. appearance. I finally found a for sale posting for this set of Rays Volk TE16's that were in excellent condition; and still had their original white coating on them. After getting them here I quickly changed my mind on the white color as it clashed with the pearl color of my car. I had them powder coated in a dark silver. I weighed them after coating and they are 10.5 lbs each. I have dropped 10.5 lbs per corner in rotating/unsprung mass. I have only put a few miles on the car tonight but I can tell some difference in the power required to accelerate. The same throttle input/KW power to the motor yields a little quicker acceleration. I can now accelerate with a little less power and help my range. It will take a few days for the car to "relearn" my driving habits and I am curious to see how much gain I will have. I drive the same route almost every day and it is on surface streets with stop and go traffic. Considering what dropping wheel weight has done for hybrids I have had in the past I am hoping for a minimum of 5-8% gain in efficiency/range. Here is a photo of the wheels on the car this evening:

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Before anyone asks, no, I will not be selling my stock wheels. I am cleaning them up to put away. Also, yes, the wheels do not have center caps. I am debating whether I want to source the proper size ones from Rays as I am not that concerned about them and they are expensive.

As far as what other wheels will fit the car for weight savings, I am not the authority on that. In some cases you will have to work with a wheel company/tire dealer to source a set to test fit. The main clearance issue is the front brake calipers contacting the wheel spokes. Certain wheel designs will require a lower offset (wheel further out) to have proper clearance. The TE16s I am running, and the same would be for their newer version TE37, would need to be in the 25mm range minimum to have enough clearance. My wheels are at a 20mm offset (20mm further outwards than the stock wheels). Also, note that the stock wheels are 16"x6.5" and most replacements, including the TE16s I am running, are 16"x7". The stock tires fit great on the 1/2" wider wheels.
 
Skywagon said:
I went back and forth on which wheels I wanted for the car debating cost vs. weight savings vs. appearance.
I don't suppose you might be willing to clue us in on how much those ran you? BTW they look sweet.
 
davewill said:
Skywagon said:
I went back and forth on which wheels I wanted for the car debating cost vs. weight savings vs. appearance.
I don't suppose you might be willing to clue us in on how much those ran you? BTW they look sweet.

Actually, since they were a private sale (used) I got them for a great deal, and I got a good deal on powder coating, so the price is irreverent. New TE37s in the same size are in the $620 range each. These are not inexpensive wheels.
 
Also, when I dropped off the wheels and tires to be swapped over I put a set of 18" Rays Forged wheels on the LEAF that I have for my Mazda (just for storage in my shop/hangar, did not drive on them)... it looked so strange/funny that I took a photo (ignore the camera phone quality):

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Just thought some might want to see those as well as they are still 5 lbs less than the stock wheels, but the increased size and tire width would hurt the efficiency/range over the stock wheels.
 
I actually really like the look of the 18's. What type Rays are those and what were the specs/offset? It will be very cool to see how shaving 40 lbs of wheel helps out on the 16's. I am amazed that Nissan would have put such heavy wheels on their first EV.
 
TRONZ said:
I actually really like the look of the 18's. What type Rays are those and what were the specs/offset? It will be very cool to see how shaving 40 lbs of wheel helps out on the 16's. I am amazed that Nissan would have put such heavy wheels on their first EV.

They are a set produced for Mazdaspeed Motorsports specifically for a select few models. They would not work on the LEAF. They just worked for a temporary storage solution so I did not have to leave it on jack stands. They look like cartoon/wagon wheels on the LEAF, especially in person.
 
wow. 20mm offset is pretty low for a fwd car. I would imagine this would lead to rubbing issues when lowered. Are you saying the stock 6.5" wheels are 0 offset?

Time to lower that bad boy and hit the track!

Thanks for weighing the stock wheels. Any more pics form different angles? I's like to see how much they stick out past the fender (if at all) compared to stock

-Nader
 
The wheels carry a 690KG weight rating, 1521 lbs each, so they are just fine. A fully forged wheel will always be much lighter than a cast wheel as the grain structure alignment in a forged wheel allows for less material to be used to obtain the same strength.

The stock wheels are 40mm offset and these are 20mm offset. They sit out flush with the fenders and they do not rub at all. I made many measurements before going through with this, I did not just shove a set of wheels on the car. I could lower the car 1.5"-2" or so without any issues. The only problem with lowering is you would end up with camber that you cannot adjust out (just swapping springs or going to coilovers); although that camber would help with clearance.

And as far as hitting the track, not my intentions. I have this car for that purpose along with a set of 255 tires for track use:

DSC01071.JPG


I will shoot some different photos in a day or so. The sun was setting last night so I was running out of daylight and took a quick photo.
 
I took some quick photos in my parking spot at work once the sun came up this morning. If the tire sidewalls were stiffer, and not so protruding past the wheel edge, then they would be completely flush. You can see that the tread is plenty flush to clear the fender lip if the car was lowered. Of course, the offsets I used for these particular wheels would not be the same if different wheels were selected. They are not the most desirable as far as spoke position vs. offset but they work just fine and are some of the lightest wheels around in this size (10.5 lbs each).

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You can see in this photo that only the sidewall protrudes past the top edge of the fender just a little, stiffer/flatter sidewalls would not protrude at all:
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Nader, you can see that they don stick out as one would think. The fenders on the LEAF are such that I can get by with this offset. Again, had it not been for such extremely light wheels, I would have chosen a different wheel design to run a little larger offset. At least that was my thoughts originally... after seeing them on the car now I am very happy with my choice. I am wanting to lower the car 1.5" or so, just enough to not affect camber too much and help cut down on the fender gap. The concept versions of the LEAF were about that low and I would just like to match that ride height/wheel gap:

IMGP0499.JPG
 
I have doubts that shaving off 40 pounds will have any noticeable benefit which is 0.02% weight difference from the overall car weight, but the wheels do look nice.
 
IBELEAF said:
I have doubts that shaving off 40 pounds will have any noticeable benefit which is 0.02% weight difference from the overall car weight, but the wheels do look nice.
The wheels on a moving car have both linear momentum and angular momentum (more energy needed to accelerate). So saving 40 pounds off the wheels will provide more benefit than say lightening 40 pounds from trunk. The question of "how much better" is harder to quantify though.
 
IBELEAF said:
I have doubts that shaving off 40 pounds will have any noticeable benefit which is 0.02% weight difference from the overall car weight, but the wheels do look nice.

You cannot group sprung and unsprung (rotating inertial) masses into the same category for looking at it from an efficiency standpoint. Inertia directly effects the torque required to get a wheel moving; the power required to get the car moving. Dropping the inertia for each wheel can help with this. If someone cruises on the freeway all the time then there is less of a gain to be had. I am mainly a city driver, and do experience stop and go traffic daily, so each restart will require less power to get the car accelerated to speed, therefore, will help a little with range. The same can also be said for why you would not want to go with the same weight in a larger diameter wheel. The majority of the mass is in the rim and moving it outwards from the axle centerline only increases the inertia of that particular wheel over a smaller diameter one. I am expecting a 5-8% gain in efficiency/range, which is not a lot, but every little bit helps.

And like greenleaf said, it will be difficult to put an exact value on the gain. I will just look at range trends over time to see a shift from the consistent numbers I have been seeing with the car.

My LEAF rolled over 3000 miles exactly as I was pulling it in my shop to pull the wheels to get them swapped over... that was kind of cool.

And thanks, the look is another benefit.
 
However, unlike an ICE car, it should also be pointed out that you get some of that energy input from heavier wheels back in the form of regenerative braking...


greenleaf said:
The wheels on a moving car have both linear momentum and angular momentum (more energy needed to accelerate). So saving 40 pounds off the wheels will provide more benefit than say lightening 40 pounds from trunk. The question of "how much better" is harder to quantify though.
 
mogur said:
However, unlike an ICE car, it should also be pointed out that you get some of that energy input from heavier wheels back in the form of regenerative braking...
Sure, but better to never have to spin that larger mass up in the first place since you can never get it all back.
 
Thanks for all the pics. The production Leaf is definitely riding a good deal higher than the concept car where the stance looks so much better, IMO.

I would have preferred to keep the wheels closer to the stock offset - but as you said - the wheels were a very good deal! I have to wonder if having them stick out a bit more will affect aero noticeably. Would be interesting to compare the track with the stock wheels with similar pics.

How are you planning on lowering the car? Ground-control sleeves? Or are you going to try to get someone to make a replacement spring? Either way, I'm definitely interested once I get my Leaf.

The Miata looks great, BTW! What suspension bits are you running on that?

Cutting 40 lbs from the wheels is HUGE. I'd bet that some Nissan engineer has numbers somewhere on how wheel weight affects range of the Leaf under various test cycles...
 
When I replaced stock wheels with bigger and heavier ones on my ICE car I did not notice any change and even if there was it was quite small to notice, but the price you pay for a new set of rims and tires is unlikely to pay off soon... So I am sure Nissan Engineers weighted every combination with wheels and did not see any benefit going with something lighter...
 
Skywagon said:

Thanks for the pics. What's the strategy for camber adjustments in the rear since it's a twist axle? Is there a camber plate you can use to shim the spindle?

The photo of the preproduction leaf looks like it has 17" wheels ont just a lower stance.

Nader
 
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