gascant
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 13 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2209
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:29 pm

Ingineer wrote:. If you really want to speed things up, I'm still on the lookout for some assistance (Paid, of course) with the LEAFSCAN's housing and injection molding work, both actual production and the CAD work for the design and tooling. :D (email me if you have some ideas)
-Phil
I know a guy that can do this. He's a LinkedIn contact and we used to work together at OptiSolar. He designed solar module junction boxes. I will contact him and see if he's interested. We CAN get this done (no pun intended).
Ingineer wrote: I've done a lot of projects like this, and I can tell you it's not easy. Anyone who uses words like "simple" and "easy" is disillusioned.
Maybe delusional? i.e., on drugs.
At a high level, everything seems easy ;)
2011 LEAF SL brilliant silver + QC
DRL's, Seat Heaters, Horn, LEDs and EVSE upgrades
Over 24,300 miles gas-free
http://sfbayleafs.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TEG
Posts: 1388
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:06 pm

lemketron wrote:
TEG wrote:...It might be better to simply look forward to future cars that will (hopefully) have a more "open" platform for additional apps. Sounds a lot like what we went through in the phone space, though clearly some platforms are more "open" (and hackable) than others...
Tesla has been saying that the Model S touch-screen will have a provision for 3rd party apps to be installed.

Phil, do you see yourself jumping over to the Tesla world someday?
(Nice to have you here working on LEAF mods while it lasts.)

User avatar
garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12469
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:12 pm

Reverse engineering is not only a lot of work, but mods made could be totally "undone" by any Nissan "Upgrade". The modifications (or even the car) could become non-functional ... or worse.

So, the best way to "instrument" the car, and avoid warranty issues is to monitor passively. Some writing to any CAN bus can provide some wonderful functions, but it becomes difficult to insure that one does not (or has not) upset the normal operations and "warnings" of the car.

If one resets some "Engine Warning" code, and the Nissan-expected "normal" (usually dealer) service on the car is delayed, it is not clear that you are entitled to the full warranty coverage.

Likewise, changing operational parameters that make the car operate in a manner not provided (or approved) by Nissan ... might also reduce one's full warranty coverage.

Anybody who has Carwings signed an agreement ... basically to not reverse-engineer the car (and possibly more, I do not recall).

I hope that LEAFSCAN has a "non-intursive" mode (where it CANNOT (more than "does not") write to any CAN bus) as default.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

User avatar
Ingineer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:09 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 6969
Location: Berkeley, California
Contact: Website

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:10 am

garygid wrote:Reverse engineering is not only a lot of work, but mods made could be totally "undone" by any Nissan "Upgrade". The modifications (or even the car) could become non-functional ... or worse.

So, the best way to "instrument" the car, and avoid warranty issues is to monitor passively. Some writing to any CAN bus can provide some wonderful functions, but it becomes difficult to insure that one does not (or has not) upset the normal operations and "warnings" of the car.

If one resets some "Engine Warning" code, and the Nissan-expected "normal" (usually dealer) service on the car is delayed, it is not clear that you are entitled to the full warranty coverage.

Likewise, changing operational parameters that make the car operate in a manner not provided (or approved) by Nissan ... might also reduce one's full warranty coverage.

Anybody who has Carwings signed an agreement ... basically to not reverse-engineer the car (and possibly more, I do not recall).

I hope that LEAFSCAN has a "non-intursive" mode (where it CANNOT (more than "does not") write to any CAN bus) as default.
Gary, simply by connecting to the DLC3 connector, you technically risk disabling or altering of the car's function. The CAN bus is no longer a bus once you tap it for any purpose, as the stub of your cabling creates a standing wave. Luckily the CAN hardware layer is robust and will tolerate this in most cases. Any products I build for sale will be extremely well tested to avoid any possible malfunction. Worse-case is something like a damaged cable, which could indeed disable the car. If that were to happen, all that would be needed to get the car going would be to simply unplug it. I can also say with certainty that using LEAFSCAN will not void the warranty and does not constitute reverse-engineering or violation of any agreements you may have made with Nissan.

Any hacking/patching of the Nav or any other systems is simply talk at this point and has nothing to do with LEAFSCAN, nor will it.

-Phil
Easily Learn Electricity HERE! - - - - Website: http://evseupgrade.com/[/size] - - - - Like us on Facebook: EVSE Upgrade

User avatar
Ingineer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:09 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 6969
Location: Berkeley, California
Contact: Website

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:13 am

TEG wrote:Phil, do you see yourself jumping over to the Tesla world someday?
(Nice to have you here working on LEAF mods while it lasts.)
I can't afford a Tesla anytime soon, so it's unlikely I'll ever be offering much for Tesla owners. Who knows what the future holds though!

-Phil
Easily Learn Electricity HERE! - - - - Website: http://evseupgrade.com/[/size] - - - - Like us on Facebook: EVSE Upgrade

DoxyLover
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:52 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 9214
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:02 pm

Ingineer wrote:
TEG wrote:Phil, do you see yourself jumping over to the Tesla world someday?
(Nice to have you here working on LEAF mods while it lasts.)
I can't afford a Tesla anytime soon, so it's unlikely I'll ever be offering much for Tesla owners. Who knows what the future holds though!

-Phil
Sounds like a large bribe (in the form of a Tesla) might get Phil doing something :lol:
2011 Brilliant Silver Leaf SL
Reserved, quoted and ordered July 11, 2011
Delivered October 16, 2011 (Na. Plug-In Day)

User avatar
ksnogas2112
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:56 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 021881
Location: Lenexa KS (Kansas City)
Contact: Website

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:42 am

evnow wrote:Now I'm fairly sure either Ingineer is not one person or he has lot more than 24 hours a day :lol:

He built himself a clock that adds and extra 8 hours to every day. The clock is an automatic override for the current space/time continuum that also allows him to place winning bets on football games after the game has been played.
Tom in KS
100 Mile Club-#57
http://ksnogas.blogspot.com/
Try reading a book, it's a novel experience
MY 2012 - Cayenne Red-55,000+ miles

defiancecp
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:02 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Little Rock

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:53 am

So here's a thought.......

I've been fiddling around with an in-dash PC to replace my dash nav unit. The part that I've kinda let trail off is handling most of the car's funcitons... The think that made me kinda lose steam on doing it is all the interconnects. I absolutely don't want to chop up a bunch of car wires, and I can't find any source for the other end of the connectors.....

But looking at this, it occured to me that maybe there's another way.

I know programming an ENTIRE system with OS, UI, and handlers for all the different interfaces is ... daunting doesn't even scratch the surface.

But what about a raw data interpreter? Could the stock unit be programmed to simply be a "dumb" data handler, interpreting info from all the car interfaces, then with its USB working as a device (instead of host), transmitting relevant info probably via virtual serial mode to a USB host in-dash PC?

There would still be the difficulty of relocating the unit (probably have to take up some glovebox space maybe?), but does the Renesas devkit include everything that would be needed for that? (and is the devkit publicly available, for that matter?)

Hm... probably wouldn't be enough bandwidth in serial mode to handle vid signal, so we'd still have to interface with the backup camera wires... But other high-bandwith things like bluetooth, nav, and audio would simply be replaced altogether by the new unit, so no need there... Most of what would need transfer would be can signals (selectively), button signals, cc settings/temps, maybe steering signal if you wanted to be hardcore...

This could probably all be answered on the site, I just haven't looked yet - will do when I get home - just saw this and got excited :)
Last edited by defiancecp on Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

defiancecp
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:02 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Little Rock

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:19 pm

kubel wrote:Since this is (presumably) a WinCE device, it would be nice if we could figure out how to break out of the Nissan application to the WinCE desktop. What we need are some Nissan service manuals. I know of at least one LEAF technician on the forums.

On a number of older Clarion WinCE sat navs, the password to access map and software update menu items is 200802, though I doubt this will help. I don't have my LEAF yet, so I have no way to dig into the menus and see if there's an option to enter a password. I'm sure Nissan isn't using stock Clarion software.
Doesn't look like this is WinCE - looks like it has its own custom OS. At least, if I'm finding the right parts references:


http://www.renesas.com/request?SCREEN_I ... ION=search#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

follow the drop-downs -> MPU&MCU -> SuperH RISC Family -> SH7780 Series -> SH7722

And it lists the OS, IDE, compiler, sample source code, etc. Some of it requires passwords, some of it is evaluation, no clue yet what's needed to do what (and how much it costs..)


*EDIT* probably better tool link?
http://www.renesas.com/products/mpumcu/ ... _index.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Hacking the Nav/MFD - Technical Information

Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:42 pm

defiancecp wrote:
kubel wrote:Since this is (presumably) a WinCE device, it would be nice if we could figure out how to break out of the Nissan application to the WinCE desktop. What we need are some Nissan service manuals. I know of at least one LEAF technician on the forums.

On a number of older Clarion WinCE sat navs, the password to access map and software update menu items is 200802, though I doubt this will help. I don't have my LEAF yet, so I have no way to dig into the menus and see if there's an option to enter a password. I'm sure Nissan isn't using stock Clarion software.
Doesn't look like this is WinCE - looks like it has its own custom OS. At least, if I'm finding the right parts references:
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/fea ... tive7.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedde ... ive-7.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Accessories / Mods”