voltamps
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:07 am

jaap wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:58 am
What came out was less then 0,10 liter! There was quite some metal goo on the magnets, but given that there was hardly any oil there, I still think the metal residue is reasonable.
Wow. Awful. .... I did hear of a an EV (Ford Focus EV) that went into the dealership to replace the differential (inside a similar gearbox to the Leaf's) and the technician forgot to put any fluid in. Failure occurred pretty quickly, after a few miles.
I'd guess, like you, that the factory assembly line worker didn't complete the fluid fill task. They squirt some in from a tank, and if that tank actually runs out, they have to stop the line, which they don't want to do. Could be that, of course guessing;;; looks like it.

It did appear like the seals were in very good shape. Clean. If it was leaking before & simply cleaned well, some would have still gotten out when you owned the car, even with the small amount in there, as it was splashing around.

Metal stuff on the magnets looked about normal anyway. Amazing how little it takes in there to grease everything up with only a little splashing & the big gear scooping some up as it's gear teeth get wet down low.

For the future, there is nothing special you can do. Check for leaks once a year. Fill it with any Dexron VI or Mercon LV or Redline or Amsoil ATF fluid or Matic S fluid of course. You did have a good idea to change it again soon to make sure the most metal particles in there get out.
2022 Leaf SV+
2020 Leaf SV - sold
Reserved a Maverick Hybrid, not built yet, might reject it.
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)
& Some really junky gasoline vehicles, not green, except for a Ford C-Max Hybrid, nice one.

mattUK
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:14 am

So the best is term of efficiency(long car range) is to change change oil to factory fitted Nissan Matic S.
Matic S it is a little expensive. What do you think about LIQUI MOLI TOP TEC ATF 1800 ?
https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pdf/en_GB/liqui/87/P000243
Viscosity at 100 °C 5,8 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04

voltamps
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:16 pm

mattUK wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:14 am
So the best is term of efficiency(long car range) is to change change oil to factory fitted Nissan Matic S.
Matic S it is a little expensive. What do you think about LIQUI MOLI TOP TEC ATF 1800 ?
https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pdf/en_GB/liqui/87/P000243
Viscosity at 100 °C 5,8 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04
Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1800 is good. LM says it is Nissan Matic S compatible, and indeed the 5.8 cSt viscosity matches Matic S.

LM is a good company, no problems with their quality reputation, good ATF.
Here in the U.S., LM tends to be a little more expensive than most other brands. Not as popular as the many other ATF options in the 5.8 cSt category. ATF fluid works fine in our simple Leaf gearbox, yet GL-4 oil in the same viscosity could be better.

In the U.K., I think Kia sells a bunch of Kona EV cars, so you might buy Kia's GL-4 for the Kona EV. I've always felt that ATF (DexronVI, MerconLV, MaticS, etc.) has unnecessary and possibly problematic requirements to work with clutches using a friction additive that prevents shudder, meaning the increasing friction needed ("Positive u-v curves" in https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=utrb20 ) in a conventional gasoline (petrol) car's automatic transmission, not our Leaf's. Kia avoids all this by specifying a GL-4 oil which will work great in a Leaf too.
2022 Leaf SV+
2020 Leaf SV - sold
Reserved a Maverick Hybrid, not built yet, might reject it.
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)
& Some really junky gasoline vehicles, not green, except for a Ford C-Max Hybrid, nice one.

mattUK
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:51 am

You mean Hunday Kona.

There is information that Matic S viscosity is 5.2ct in this thread. Anyone have datasheet that can confirm this ?

voltamps
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:15 pm

mattUK wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:51 am
You mean Hunday Kona.

There is information that Matic S viscosity is 5.2ct in this thread. Anyone have datasheet that can confirm this ?
Right! Hyundai Kona. My bad. I conflate those 2 sister companies sometimes.


One Idemitsu Matic S ATF spec page ( https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/product/atf-type-s-1 ) had 5.2, although I now believe they made a typo. Mistakes on spec sheets happen more than you might think. If 5.2 is correct for the Idemitsu sauce, 5.2 isn't much different than 5.7 or 5.8 anyway.

The actual contract for dealership ATF fluids is with Eneos, and their Nissan Matic S specific juice is 5.7. I think 5.7 is a better number to assume dealership ATF is.
https://www.eneos.us/wp-content/uploads ... 210430.pdf

Basically any "low viscosity" ATF fluid is fine in a Leaf. No clutch inside, it doesn't care which you feed it. Besides the Hyundai-Kia EV recommendation of their thin GL-4 oil, anything in the low visc column below will work:

Image
2022 Leaf SV+
2020 Leaf SV - sold
Reserved a Maverick Hybrid, not built yet, might reject it.
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)
& Some really junky gasoline vehicles, not green, except for a Ford C-Max Hybrid, nice one.

voltamps
Posts: 171
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:25 pm

jaap wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:58 am
Of course, I could have inspected the reduction gear oil earlier and according to the maintenance schedule, the dealer should have inspected it at the 12-month periodical check they did when they sold it to me. Apparently, they didn't. Any thoughts on what would be my best course of action to make sure this mistake has no (or least) consequences for the lifetime of the vehicle?
One more thing that occurs to me: Make sure you use actual Nissan Matic S when you re-fill, take pictures of the bottles, with a receipt, etc., and document that you at least got it from the dealership (where they should have checked the level). Just because the gearbox could start to make funny noises soon & it may need to be replaced under the powertrain warranty.
2022 Leaf SV+
2020 Leaf SV - sold
Reserved a Maverick Hybrid, not built yet, might reject it.
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)
& Some really junky gasoline vehicles, not green, except for a Ford C-Max Hybrid, nice one.

jaap
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:14 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2018
Leaf Number: 123456

Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:51 am

jaap wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:58 am
...when I opened the drain plug, nothing happened. After a while a tiny stream of pitch black oil came out. What came out was less then 0,10 liter! There was quite some metal goo on the magnets, but given that there was hardly any oil there, I still think the metal residue is reasonable.

Maybe there wasn’t even enough oil in there to transport all the metal residue to the magnets, so I’m thinking about changing (or at least draining) the oil again after 1000km to see how much dirt will accumulate now that there is oil.
It took a bit longer (2.500km) but now I changed the oil again. There was more dirt on the magnets then you would expect after 2.500km, so my assumption that the dirt was not transported because of lack of oil was probably correct. The oil that came out still looked still a bit red, but it was already "mostly black" so I guess by now most of the dirt left the reduction gearbox with the oil.

Next problem.... there is also some red oil on the outside of the gearbox. It seems to be leaking somewhere! The oil is on the right side of the gearbox. It seems to come from a little black tube next to the thick electric cable. What is this tube? Is it an air filter for the reduction box? And if it's so high up, how come it's leaking oil?

It could also be that the right side drive shaft oil seal is leaking and the oil is spread upwards by the drive shaft, but the oil seems to be inside the little tube too. I'm sure it's not the plugs, they are dry and the oil is on the right side of the gearbox, not on the left side where the plugs are.

Any ideas?

The picture (taken from under the motor, upwards), shows the little tube next to the electric cable.

https://owncloud.zb45.nl/index.php/apps ... qZrJCZKTWk#

nlspace
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:58 am

Looks like the breather tube--how much oil did you put in when you refilled it?

Image

jaap
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:34 am

nlspace wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:58 am
Looks like the breather tube--how much oil did you put in when you refilled it?
I filled it until it came out again from the filler hole. That was approx. 1.4 liters.

Where is this breather tube connected? It's hard to see in this exploded view (and also in the engine compartment without taking the engine out).

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Nubo
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Re: How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change

Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:25 pm

jaap wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:34 am
nlspace wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:58 am
Looks like the breather tube--how much oil did you put in when you refilled it?
I filled it until it came out again from the filler hole. That was approx. 1.4 liters.

Where is this breather tube connected? It's hard to see in this exploded view (and also in the engine compartment without taking the engine out).

Was the car level when you refilled the gearbox?
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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