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Re: Long term EV storage procedure

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:01 am
by WetEV
jlv wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:45 am
WetEV wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:39 am
jlv wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:22 am
I'd leave the battery with more SOC than that; more like 60-80% (as stated above).
Li-ion battery calendar loss is dependant on SOC. The higher the SOC, the faster the loss. Yes, even down to 10%, the lowest tested.

M. Ecker et al. / Journal of Power Sources 248 (2014)
If you leave the car at 80% SOC, it isn't going to reach 10% SOC faster then if you initially left the car at 60% SOC.
???
Unless there is substantial vampire loss due to very low temperatures, a LEAF doesn't lose SOC very fast. SOH is lost faster at high SOC.

So only looking at calendar life, lower SOC is better, all the way down to 10%.

There isn't much reason to leave at 80%, again unless the temperature is low enough for the battery heater to activate. And if it is that cold, you might just want to leave at 100%, as calendar loss is very slow at subfreezing temperatures.

Re: Long term EV storage procedure

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:43 am
by Stanton
WetEV wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:01 am
There isn't much reason to leave at 80%, again unless the temperature is low enough for the battery heater to activate. And if it is that cold, you might just want to leave at 100%, as calendar loss is very slow at subfreezing temperatures.
I can't believe I'm reading this...on this site...from an experienced member...after all we know.
Never, ever, ever leave an EV charged to 100% more than a day or so...no matter what the temperature.
I still can't believe Nissan never re-instated the 80% charge option post MY2012 (I use it all the time).

Re: Long term EV storage procedure

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:13 am
by WetEV
Stanton wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:43 am
WetEV wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:01 am
There isn't much reason to leave at 80%, again unless the temperature is low enough for the battery heater to activate. And if it is that cold, you might just want to leave at 100%, as calendar loss is very slow at subfreezing temperatures.
I can't believe I'm reading this...on this site...from an experienced member...after all we know.
Never, ever, ever leave an EV charged to 100% more than a day or so...no matter what the temperature.
I still can't believe Nissan never re-instated the 80% charge option post MY2012 (I use it all the time).
If the temperature is low enough for the battery heater to activate the EV will not be at 100% for long. If you want the car drive-able when you return, perhaps you might want more charge in the battery.

"100%" on the dash is more like 95% actual. 95% actual is about 3 times less calendar loss than 100% actual. 40% is about half the calendar loss of 95% actual. The LEAF, other than some early prototypes, will not allow charging to 100% actual.

At 0C, the loss will be roughly 1/4 the rate of at 20C. So keeping the charge level higher has an effect, but it is smaller because the temperature is lower. Keeping the battery at 95% actual at 0C is better than keeping the battery at 40% at 20C.

BTW, removing the charge option is close to top of my list of criticisms of the newer LEAFs. The etron allows any 10% from 50% to 100%. As my driving is close to home, I'm now using 60% charge limit and plugging in at 50% on the etron. My son with an essential job is driving the LEAF, and charges to 100% before departure, and comes home with 20% on the worst days in winter (wind, snow inland and cold), and over 50% on nice summer days.

Re: Long term EV storage procedure

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:28 am
by gncndad
Sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, because my OCD issues, finally, are not with my cars!! HAHA!!

Dallas/Fort Worth region. I have charged to 100% virtually every single day that I've owned my 2015 LeafS, now at 37k miles, 11 bars on the GOM. Most days, it is driven to 45% capacity, rarely below 30%. We like 100% charge to allow us a spontaneous lengthy errand w/o range anxiety. Lifetime average 4.1 m/kWh, GOM shows 80-83m every single start-up.

It infrequently sits at 100% w/o being driven, with the exception of my FIRST year, when I left it plugged in for 5 straight weeks (July, garaged, no A/C...HOT!) .

I did lose my OEM battery after 4 years.

EDIT: I lost my OEM 12V battery after 4 years!!!!! I'm still on my OEM Lizard battery, with 11 bars.

...just muddying the water here with my single data point! ;) :P

Re: Long term EV storage procedure

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:13 am
by Stanton
gncndad wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:28 am
It infrequently sits at 100% w/o being driven, with the exception of my FIRST year, when I left it plugged in for 5 straight weeks (July, garaged, no A/C...HOT!) .

I did lose my OEM battery after 4 years.

...just muddying the water here with my single data point! ;) :P
In this case, your single data point is important: you lost a Lizard battery in 4 years (probably in large part to that 5 weeks it sat @100% in the Texas summer) where my (replacement) Lizard battery is now beyond 4 years @2BL (I lost my original battery after 4 years in Texas).

Re: Long term EV storage procedure

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:51 am
by arnis
Stanton wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:43 am

Never, ever, ever leave an EV charged to 100% more than a day or so...no matter what the temperature.
"no matter what the temperature" is not well defined by somebody who lives in TX.
If you have no experience with sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures and batteries,
please don't say "no matter what temperature". Nothing really happens at -15*C with Li-ion,
no matter what temperature and what voltage. Calendar life...stops.

Also please keep the topic clean of endless fight over literally stupid never-ending topic :|
"Long term EV storage procedure" is not about that one thing that has overtaken 10+% of this forum.

Long term is about weeks and months... not days. Battery heater plays no role here.

Re: Long term EV storage procedure

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:14 am
by gncndad
OOOPS!!!! Major typo in my post.

I lost my OEM 12V battery after 4 years, NOT THE LIZARD BATTERY. I'm still on my OEM Lizard battery.

Sorry for the confusion....