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Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:42 am
by rmay635703
I did what your doing from 2006-2013,

I only blew a breaker twice in that time and learned schedule.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:26 am
by Quothmar
Rmay, that sounds excellent.

Here's another idea: give other residents assigned days of the week that they can charge. One resident might be on a Monday-Wednesday-Friday schedule and another on a Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday. It might depend on their commutes and their charging needs, but with the right system it can all be worked out.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:51 am
by powersurge
I'm not trying to be pessimistic,.... BUT.... The worst thing you can do is making something that will be visible, and second, trying to include other people.

Try to run your extension cord as camouflaged as much as possible. Find a way to carry your EVSE with you. I would try to cleverly bury the extension cord 2-4 inches below ground, not above. There will ALWAYS be an idiot walking by, and will be drawn to destroying crap... What

What I used to do was to put the EVSE INSIDE the car... lock the EVSE inside by the driver side, and leave the window only open 3/4 inch. Run the a/c extension cord into the car through the window, plug it into the EVSE, and run the charging cable through the window out of the car, and plug it in. This way, no one will be able to steal your EVSE.

Also, you cannot trust anyone, because they will do something wrong and mess it all up for everybody.... The best pot of gold is the one that only you know about....

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:38 pm
by Oilpan4
powersurge wrote:I'm not trying to be pessimistic,.... BUT.... The worst thing you can do is making something that will be visible, and second, trying to include other people.

Try to run your extension cord as camouflaged as much as possible. Find a way to carry your EVSE with you. I would try to cleverly bury the extension cord 2-4 inches below ground, not above. There will ALWAYS be an idiot walking by, and will be drawn to destroying crap... What

What I used to do was to put the EVSE INSIDE the car... lock the EVSE inside by the driver side, and leave the window only open 3/4 inch. Run the a/c extension cord into the car through the window, plug it into the EVSE, and run the charging cable through the window out of the car, and plug it in. This way, no one will be able to steal your EVSE.

Also, you cannot trust anyone, because they will do something wrong and mess it all up for everybody.... The best pot of gold is the one that only you know about....
So true.
Remember no good deeds go unpunished.

I see a lot of evse units on ebay, sold by random junk sellers who don't know what they are selling. I assume some of these are stolen off cars while they are charging.
I have seen on the leaf FB page someone ranting about having their charger stolen at least a couple of times last year.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:20 am
by Quothmar
powersurge wrote:I'm not trying to be pessimistic,.... BUT.... The worst thing you can do is making something that will be visible, and second, trying to include other people.

Try to run your extension cord as camouflaged as much as possible. Find a way to carry your EVSE with you. I would try to cleverly bury the extension cord 2-4 inches below ground, not above. There will ALWAYS be an idiot walking by, and will be drawn to destroying crap... What

What I used to do was to put the EVSE INSIDE the car... lock the EVSE inside by the driver side, and leave the window only open 3/4 inch. Run the a/c extension cord into the car through the window, plug it into the EVSE, and run the charging cable through the window out of the car, and plug it in. This way, no one will be able to steal your EVSE.

Also, you cannot trust anyone, because they will do something wrong and mess it all up for everybody.... The best pot of gold is the one that only you know about....
Where I live, there are security cameras that monitor all outside activity. Anyone who willfully damages my JLong will be caught on tape and potentially arrested. So, until the idiots are all 'educated away' (I do not believe mean-spirited people will always exist), every apartment complex could, in theory, install security cameras. Again, it may sound extreme, but it's less costly than charging infrastructure, and the alternative would be to let every urban residential section reek of gas fumes.

Now, that's for destroying the plug -- stealing is easier to prevent. As I mentioned, I leave my house window cracked open with my EVSE peeking out of the corner, so that I can take my JLong out of my hatchback and charge through the window. To prevent anyone's stealing either the EVSE or the JLong, I use two padlocks. One padlock keeps the JLong hooked to the metal piece in the car's charging lid (shaped like a 'U'). The other padlock keeps the EVSE hooked to a leg of a bed inside my house.

More on the circuitry problem: I did some testing and found that trickle-charging uses 1300 watts. It doesn't seem like much, but I'm contemplating doing some testing with other household appliances to see if pushing it above 2600 watts will snap the circuit breaker. If that turns out to be a problem, here's another idea: keep each window charging port on a separate timed outlet. You can buy plug outlet timers at a home improvement store (I haven't seen the ones with a three-prong outlet, but they ought to exist), and make one outlet work from 7:00 PM - 11:00 PM, another work from 11:00 PM - 3:00 AM, and another work from 3:00 AM - 7:00 AM. If everyone charges their car as soon as they get home, they should each get a decent four hour charge overnight without causing circuit breaker issues.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:57 am
by rogersleaf
Quothmar wrote: More on the circuitry problem: I did some testing and found that trickle-charging uses 1300 watts. It doesn't seem like much, but I'm contemplating doing some testing with other household appliances to see if pushing it above 2600 watts will snap the circuit breaker. If that turns out to be a problem, here's another idea: keep each window charging port on a separate timed outlet. You can buy plug outlet timers at a home improvement store (I haven't seen the ones with a three-prong outlet, but they ought to exist), and make one outlet work from 7:00 PM - 11:00 PM, another work from 11:00 PM - 3:00 AM, and another work from 3:00 AM - 7:00 AM. If everyone charges their car as soon as they get home, they should each get a decent four hour charge overnight without causing circuit breaker issues.
If your thought is using a simple lamp timer, check for the amperage rating of the timer. I ran into a similar situation with Diesel engine block heaters. Those heaters are 120v. @ 1500 watts (similar to an evse), and designed for a dedicated 20 amp line with at least #12 wiring incl. the extension cord. We ended up installing a bank of relays, then using the lamp timers to trip the relays. The relays were rated to handle the sustained 15 amp load. There was a dedicated circuit for each line. The lamp timers were only rated for the roughly 200-300 watts that a typical table lamp would draw but ok for controlling the relay.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:41 pm
by LeftieBiker
More on the circuitry problem: I did some testing and found that trickle-charging uses 1300 watts. It doesn't seem like much, but I'm contemplating doing some testing with other household appliances to see if pushing it above 2600 watts will snap the circuit breaker.
If that doesn't trip the breaker then you have a defective breaker, and are risking a fire by badly overloading the circuit.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:02 pm
by Oilpan4
A 20 amp breaker doesn't immediately trip at 20 amps or else every time anything with a vaccum cleaner sized motor is turned on the breaker would trip. Breakers have a trip curve.
Typically modern thermal magnetic breakers could run at 120% of rated load for up to 3 hours depending on ambient temperature.
Or run at 150% of rated amps for 30 to 150 seconds
Then at 200% they can take 8 to 40 seconds to trip.
To get trip times under 1 second you have to go all the way up to about 9 times it's rated current.
Anything more than about 10x rated amps it's a magnetic trip and fault clear times drop way down to more like a single or half a 60Hz cycle, so 1/60 to 1/120 of a second.
So just because you can draw more than rated amps through a breaker for some amount of time doesn't mean it's bad.

A good test would be if you can draw more than 150% amps over a breaker for more than 3 minutes it's probably bad, unless it's some old obsolete style of breaker, that may be normal for them and likely the reason they're obsolete.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:33 pm
by LeftieBiker
Helpful info, but I didn't write "immediately trip." I wrote "trip." Charging loads are nothing like inductive startup loads.

Re: Idea for apartment dwellers: 'host' charging through window

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:45 pm
by Oilpan4
Charing loads are potentially far more dangerous than startup surges.

That's probably why NEC added a section to where electric vehicle chargers are supposed to be on their own dedicated circuit.