Anyone show precond (heat/cool) kW on their TED5000?

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scottf200

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
1,845
Location
In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
As the temperature gets cooler around the country (CA mainly excluded), a lot of us that are trying to use EV only miles are preconditioning while still plugged into the grid.

The Volt preconditions/remote starts for 10 minutes. You can do it twice. It can be done via the FOB/RKE but you can do it from the mobile app and myvolt.com site

I'm wondering for comparisons how the LEAF and Volt handle preconditioning on 220|240v L2 and 110|120v L1.
ie. how much kW is used during the timed precond and then how much time is used to recharge
ie. how much a 2nd precondition differs from the 1st one if done say 20 minutes or whatever later.

I have zero/0 interest in negativity comparisons between the two so let me be clear about that. I'm not trying to prove anything or have any motive beside curiosity and understanding.

I have zero/0 interest in talking about my electrical usage in my house (work in progress).


Using TED 5000 to remote start / precondition the Chevrolet Volt on SPX 220v charger. 1st 10 minutes took 5 minutes to recover and 2nd 10 minuts took 2 minutes to recover (cabin already warm?)
--- 220|240v ---
precondition_TED5000.JPG



--- 110|120v --- 74 ECO 60 degree garage
preccondition_TED5000_120v.JPG
 
Interesting graphs - a little surprising with a garage temperature of 60. Since it's in the single digits here in the winter during the night, I wonder how much extra time it would take for the Leaf to be both preconditioned and fully charged - especially at 110V.

What temperature are you heating the cabin to?

Does the Volt always use an electric heater, or does it have some mode to use engine heat if the engine is running?

Do you know the difference in kW ratings of the heater in the Volt vs. the Leaf?
 
scottf200 said:
I'm wondering for comparisons how the LEAF and Volt handle preconditioning on 220v L2 and 110v L1.

I can only tell you about 240 and 120, we don't have 220 nor do we have 110. Preconditioning the LEAF takes ONLY 5-10 minutes. Any more than that, and it is wasting energy. Preheating/cooling with the LEAF isn't meant to completely cool or heat the cabin, but to be comfortable when you get in. You would still need to use the HVAC. Supposedly, when we precondition, it uses the energy from the grid/PVs rather than the battery pack when it is plugged in. If it is only at 80% charge, it will charge a bit while it's preconditioning. Our Blinks use about 3.8kW hs of juice on 240 with the 3.3kW charger. I have never used the Panasonic L1, so I have no idea with that one.
 
Normally I only precondition once. The Volt will do up to two 10 minute cycles. I generally do it from the FOB/RKE but you can do it from the mobile app and myvolt.com site.

LakeLeaf said:
Interesting graphs - a little surprising with a garage temperature of 60. Since it's in the single digits here in the winter during the night, I wonder how much extra time it would take for the Leaf to be both preconditioned and fully charged - especially at 110V.
It is attached to the house and is fully insulated. As well I have a 2" plastic pipe that comes through the wall from my heating duct work. Keeps the chill off. In the winter it helps melt ice/snow from wheelwells, etc. I did that several years ago.

LakeLeaf said:
What temperature are you heating the cabin to?
74 in this example but it is on ECO so that is slower to get to that temp. It does behave differently during preconditions and tries to hit the temp faster it seems. I don't think there is much difference kW-wise of heating to 74 or 80. Why 80? Because as soon as you open the door you let heat out. Plus then the ~80 can decrease as you drive. It is not that cold here in Chicagoland yet so I have not remembered to set the temp up (i.e. to 80) before I shut it off at night. My drive to work is 12 miles each way so I can fairly easily do seat heaters or cabin heater on the way. Sometimes I experiment for the sake of the community and knowledge.

LakeLeaf said:
Does the Volt always use an electric heater, or does it have some mode to use engine heat if the engine is running?
Yes if the ICE/GG is running it will use waste heat from to warm the cabin. My last 7300 have used just 12.8 gal of gas so I don't run the ICE/GG much. If it is really cold the ICE will turn on for a few minutes to produce some extra juice for the battery (and cabin) heating. This in-the-end extends the EV miles since cold batteries don't discharge as efficiently as I understand it. LOT of details and graphs on the Volt's heating and cooling system in this blog entry.

LakeLeaf said:
Do you know the difference in kW ratings of the heater in the Volt vs. the Leaf?
I do not know about the Volt's. I've seen references to the Leaf's recently. This post says the LEAF heater is 5kW.
 
When I precondition the LEAF I see a 3900 watt load on the EVSE which is no different than when I am charging to 80%. This suggests that the charging system in the LEAF runs at full power - delivering 3300 watts of DC power to the heater, DC to DC converter, and the coolant pump. The excess power that is not used by the heater or 400V to 12V converter goes to charge the Lithium battery. I've thought a good way to measure the capacity of the Lithium battery would be to use the heater on a cold day with doors open and the heater running at max temperature. By estimating the power demand from the NAV energy display for the heater + fans and with the hope & assumption of a constant heater load the battery capacity could be determined. I tried this a few days ago but it wasn't very cold and the heater reduced power after a few minutes so I aborted the trial.

I haven't tried the power demand measurement with a Level 1 charging system nor with a battery charge close to 100%. I suspect the 3300 watt power supply will idle down to just power the heater and cabin related power loads.
 
Nekota said:
By estimating the power demand from the NAV energy display for the heater + fans and with the hope & assumption of a constant heater load the battery capacity could be determined.

I'll save you the time and trouble. The TOTAL battery capacity of the LEAF is 28.8kW hs. When I was getting a QC, a tech engineer for ECOtality told me that Nissan told him this when they were testing the battery packs at their location. After I had charged to 100% (took an additional 32 mins. beyond 90%), one of the EEs used his laptop and told me that my usable capacity was only 19kW hs! Since my gauge read only 86%, I could have topped off with an L2 to get the 21 usable that most of us know is available. But there is MORE hidden than we thought! So I believe that when someone hits 'turtle' and it shuts off, there is still at least 20% (hidden) left in the battery pack.
 
What is the red line on your charts?

scottf200 said:
As the temperature gets cooler around the country (CA mainly excluded), a lot of us that are trying to use EV only miles are preconditioning while still plugged into the grid.

The Volt preconditions/remote starts for 10 minutes. You can do it twice. It can be done via the FOB/RKE but you can do it from the mobile app and myvolt.com site

I'm wondering for comparisons how the LEAF and Volt handle preconditioning on 220|240v L2 and 110|120v L1.
ie. how much kW is used during the timed precond and then how much time is used to recharge
ie. how much a 2nd precondition differs from the 1st one if done say 20 minutes or whatever later.

I have zero/0 interest in negativity comparisons between the two so let me be clear about that. I'm not trying to prove anything or have any motive beside curiosity and understanding.

I have zero/0 interest in talking about my electrical usage in my house (work in progress).


Using TED 5000 to remote start / precondition the Chevrolet Volt on SPX 220v charger. 1st 10 minutes took 5 minutes to recover and 2nd 10 minuts took 2 minutes to recover (cabin already warm?)
--- 220|240v ---
precondition_TED5000.JPG



--- 110|120v --- 74 ECO 60 degree garage
preccondition_TED5000_120v.JPG
 
i'll be a new leaf owner later this month - and i have a question about preconditioning when NOT connected to the power grid. if i'm parked outside on a cold night, say 30 degrees, how much of my battery capacity will drain if i precondition?
 
Nekota said:
When I precondition the LEAF I see a 3900 watt load on the EVSE which is no different than when I am charging to 80%. This suggests that the charging system in the LEAF runs at full power - delivering 3300 watts of DC power to the heater, DC to DC converter, and the coolant pump. The excess power that is not used by the heater or 400V to 12V converter goes to charge the Lithium battery.
The fact that the battery continues charging while pre-conditioning the interior sort of bothers me. I have only begun to use the pre-heat function once in awhile now, since the weather has turned colder here in Lo Cal (I know--cold is a relative term, but it has been in the 50s lately at night). I normally charge to only 80% every night between midnight and 5:00AM, which is the super off-peak period for SDG&E. We don't usually get in the car to go anywhere until 7:00AM. I usually start the pre-heat cycle with Carwings a half-hour before we get in the car, which means all the power used is during off-peak, and twice as expensive. The car always seems to charge the traction battery another bar's worth (11 instead of 10 bars) during the pre-heat cycle. It is small money, really, but I still would like it to only use the energy out of the wall to do the pre-heating, not to also charge the traction battery during this time. We don't need the extra mileage, usually, and if we do have plans to drive further, I would reset the timer to 100% the night before. This behavior is only a nuisance, but I wish Nissan had engineered the system to recognize when an 80% timer is in effect and not add additional charge during the pre-heating cycle. :evil:

I guess we could just wait to turn the HVAC on until we get in the car to drive it, but then there is a 5-10 minute lag time before the cabin gets comfortable, and it is nice to have it warmed up and waiting for you. It just negates the savings from super off-peak charging somewhat to do so.

TT
 
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