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Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:40 am
by evchels
Hi all,

I've gone through the threads related to the battery warranty and town hall meeting, updated the list of questions, and pasted below (also sent to Nissan). Please let me know (here, via pm, or at LEAFadvisors at gmail dot com- RSVP's too!) if I've missed anything and I will keep updating accordingly.

In response to suggestions of prioritization, I've emphasized a handful of questions in red that have seemed to get the most attention.

chelsea

Enhanced Capacity Warranty 

Fine Print

1. Why only warranty to 70% if projections stated by Nissan were 80%? Is lower % to now accommodate hot climate projections? If so, why shouldn’t current drivers in those areas be guaranteed the same performance as “unaffected” drivers (by warranty or other means), given that Nissan made the same 80% projection for everyone?

2. Parameters around usage behavior that might void the warranty- e.g., frequent QC or turtle, always charging to 100%, etc.

3. Is there a minimum capacity that would be restored in the case of a warranty claim? (i.e., if warranty is 70%, should we only expect 71%? Variable based on age/mileage? Full capacity?)

4. Will this warranty replace buyback option for unsatisfied owners? Will any drivers who've gotten buyback offers already have them rescinded?

5. Will Nissan still consider any other remedy options (e.g. converting owners to a lease, residual value guarantee, etc. to address ongoing concerns around resale values?)

Options?

1. Extended warranty options and/or option to rehab pack before 70% at customer cost for those that need more range and/or don’t want to wait til 70%?

2. Would Nissan consider another "step” to warranty- e.g. 80% at 3 yrs, 70% at 5?

3. Would Nissan consider a more robust battery capacity warranty/remedy for those in hot climates, as it now seemed clear that hot climates have a more pronounced impact on degradation (i.e., "special treatment" for owners in those areas?)

Capacity gauge bars- need common understanding of what each bar means and assurance of accuracy

1. Info on gauge fix- when, and will it change value of each bar?

2. Current matrix re capacity bars (e.g.- 9 bars still = 66-72%?)

3. Does warranty trigger at 9 bars or 8 bars? Why bars at all instead of kWh?

4. How can you guard against manipulation of gauge by dealers or third parties (either to avoid capacity warranty or for resale purposes)

5. If bars are meant to be just the consumer-friendly "trigger" for warranty how will % capacity be specifically and objectively verified?

Batteries (not specific warranty questions)

1. Price!!! If not given on 1/8, need a specific promise date for this info, and if beyond 3/1, an explanation for why, as commitment to this info was made in early Oct. 2012. Specifically:
--what does a new battery cost installed?
--what does a refurbished battery cost installed?
--if an owner wants to have his existing pack refurbished (not covered under warranty), what will that cost?
--how does Nissan compute the value/credit for a used battery; are all used batteries equal in value if turned in?
--will these costs be standardized by Nissan or are we at the mercy of the dealership?

2. Future LEAF battery options- e.g. multiple capacity choices, advance purchase replacement programs (a la Tesla)

3. Will future “better” batteries be available to today’s LEAF drivers?
more info on degradation curves, specific effect of different driving/charging/climate factors, etc. 

4. What are long-term plans to address heat degradation issue? TMS? Specific battery chemistry for certain climates? Others?

5. 5-yr projected capacity for AZ and other hot climate drivers at 12,500 miles/yr  
Does a hot pack degenerate even while vehicle is parked, or is the 'real' accelerated wear happening when charging and/or driving?

6. To what extent does SoC affect battery health/degradation? How much does leaving the pack at 100% SoC for long periods (e.g. potentially on a dealer lot or while owner is on vacation) in hot climates negatively impact health? Is 80% better? 60%? etc.

Miscellaneous

1. Will Nissan stop selling the LEAF in AZ or other hot climates?

2. Clarity around reporting between dealers and NNA regarding used vehicle transactions. Who can a used LEAF buyer contact to verify that NNA has current ownership info for warranty or other purposes? 

3. Are there any financial incentives available to LEAF owners who sold their vehicles at a loss b/c of capacity concern, but who are reassured enough to get another LEAF in light of enhanced warranty, etc.?

4. More info re installed vs usable kWh in pack (for better understanding of capacity expectations)

5. What immediate steps are being taken to ensure more realistic communication to the public and potential buyers about battery range, degradation and other factors by dealers, auto show reps, etc.?

6. What steps are being taken to educate dealers about optimum charging and storage practices (e.g. not continually charging a stock vehicle to 100% every few days), and enforce those practices? Alternatively, would Nissan consider a factory-set charging default to 80%, that can be changed by the customer at time of delivery?

Questions not specifically related to the battery topic:

1. What is status of Nissan’s Quick Charger plans?

2. How do we get rid of constant "Press OK to accept"!!! 

3. Will "LEAF to home" come to the US?

4. Will 2013 firmware be available to 2011/2012 cars? (e.g. SoC gauge)

5. Update on “fix” for on-board charger (Wattstation issue)

6. How many Nissan executives, middle management, or individuals involved in the design and development of the LEAF drive the car on a regular basis?

7. The 12v battery goes dead if the car is stored for an extended period while plugged in; car won’t not start. Is this going to fixed in the future such that the 12v battery will be kept topped off while plugged in either on 2011/2012 models or going forward with 2013 model?

8. Door lock/unlock buttons not being lit at night. Will this be fixed in the 2013 model? Optional upgrade for 2011/2012?


The following items have been suggested in these threads, so while longer topics, they have been noted for the appropriate group to keep working on, and will undoubtedly evolve into longer threads themselves.

For battery task force (Tony/Phil/chelsea), longer-term:

1. Working w Nissan to develop joint “best practices” re long term battery care, and consumer-friendly info about battery degradation and factors and driver behavior that can affect it (for addendum in owners manual or dealer handouts, for example)

For larger advisory board: 

1. Better annual battery report (noting the need here, but will circle back for a longer conversation about specific wants on a diff thread)

2. Carwings enhancements? Low SoC alerts, remote queries like 12v battery status, programmable charging at SoC targets, etc.

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:06 pm
by thankyouOB
thanks for this comprehensive summation.
a suggestion:
the battery-pricing question is not phrased to demand clarity around the issue of cost for battery replacement, as well as the credit for an old battery when buying a new one, and how that would be computed.
that is to say, are all turned-in batteries equal in value?

I think we would like to know various, limited permutations:
--what does a new battery cost installed?
--what does a refurbished battery cost installed?
--how does Nissan compute the value/credit for a used battery; are all used batteries equal in value if turned in?

--Finally, and most importantly, will these costs be standardized by Nissan or are we at the mercy of the dealership?


Note: Two folks on this forum (myself one of them) reported a very wide disparity for battery removal and replacement during an accident repair.
one was charged ~$3400 and the other ~$1200--different dealers working with different collision shops. the more expensive one was working with a corporate owned shop and dealership under the same national banner.

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:12 pm
by LTLFTcomposite
Here's a question I'd love the answer to... how many Nissan executives, middle management, or individuals involved in the design and development of the LEAF drive the car on a regular basis? i.e. do they eat their own dog food?

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:14 pm
by evchels
thankyouOB wrote: I think we would like to know various, limited permutations:
--what does a new battery cost installed?
--what does a refurbished battery cost installed?
--how does Nissan compute the value/credit for a used battery; are all used batteries equal in value if turned in?

--Finally, and most importantly, will these costs be standardized by Nissan or are we at the mercy of the dealership?[/b]
thanks- list edited to add them all.

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:18 pm
by evchels
LTLFTcomposite wrote:Here's a question I'd love the answer to... how many Nissan executives, middle management, or individuals involved in the design and development of the LEAF drive the car on a regular basis? i.e. do they eat their own dog food?
Not nearly enough in my experience! :) Though I was encouraged to see on my last visit to Franklin that at least a few hundred employees drive LEAFs (the employee parking lot was awesome!), including much of the product planning team. Still, it's a very valid question and one that should be posed- I've had a few employees tell me they wish more of their colleagues drove the car so they would better understand...all sorts of things.

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:18 pm
by JPWhite
evchels wrote:Hi all,

I've gone through the threads related to the battery warranty and town hall meeting, updated the list of questions, and pasted below (also sent to Nissan). Please let me know (here, via pm, or at LEAFadvisors at gmail dot com- RSVP's too!) if I've missed anything and I will keep updating accordingly.
I remember seeing in one of the threads a miscellaneous question regarding the door lock/unlock buttons not being lit at night. Will this be fixed in the 2013 model? Optional upgrade for 2011/2012?

I did think of another miscellaneous question. The 12v battery goes dead if the car is stored for an extended period while plugged in. Car does not start as a result. Is this going to fixed in the future such that the 12v battery will be kept topped off while plugged in either on 2011/2012 models or going forward with 2013 model?

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:25 pm
by thankyouOB
terrific.
this is a hell of a list.
perhaps, it makes sense to prioritize things in it, especially for the actual session.
they will never get to all of these even if they do their homework ahead of time and are prepared to answer every question.

alternatively, this list could go to them with a request for answers for posting here.

i am not one of those who thinks nissan is using these sessions and the evchels group as a ploy. it is part of a pr and marketing strategy in answer to crisis issues.
but the reality of time means that our list needs to be more targeted; highlighting every issue is highlighting no issue.

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:40 pm
by evchels
thankyouOB wrote: this is a hell of a list.
...alternatively, this list could go to them with a request for answers for posting here.
True- we aren't going to get all the answers Tuesday night, both because of time constraints and Nissan's own internal processes. But the inherent follow-up was exactly my goal; what doesn't get answered becomes the (undoubtedly evolving) list for Tony, Phil and I to keep taking up with them.

I also reorganized the list format a bit so that we could post answers here, FAQ-style, as we get them.

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:46 pm
by jlsoaz
evchels wrote:Hi all,

I've gone through the threads related to the battery warranty and town hall meeting, updated the list of questions, and pasted below (also sent to Nissan). Please let me know (here, via pm, or at LEAFadvisors at gmail dot com- RSVP's too!) if I've missed anything and I will keep updating accordingly. ...
Hi Chelsea:

A low priority question:

Arizona is not only a place where there are a lot of heat-related battery issues, but also a place where there are a fair number of Leaf drivers powering their cars with residential PV. I'm not sure if I've seen any questions in and around this. I do see something about asking in a general way if Leaf-to-Home is coming to the US. I guess I'm half-asking if Nissan has any thoughts or plans for Leaf drivers who also have some or all of their power coming from solar. Could be anything..... maybe just some minor app to help calculate CO2 footprint (if this hasn't already been done)?

After Hurricane Sandy I did get to thinking about my own grid-tied PV which only supplies part of my electric energy needs, and how I do not have any batteries, and so there is no power here during an outage, so I do think part of my question can be partly wrapped into the Leaf-to-home question, and part of it into the what-to-do-with-leaf-packs-when-they're swapped-out question since at some point I'd just like to figure out if there's some elegant reasonable-cost way to have backup battery power for a few hours or more at my house without my spending too much. I sort of doubt the Leaf can be tied in to that readily, but it can't hurt to ask.

Josh

PS: When PIA conducted the study, did it ask if drivers had PV? I can't remember. I'd be curious as to the overall percentages in Arizona and other areas.

Re: Questions for Jan 8th Town Hall Mtg in AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:22 pm
by LEAFfan
Hi Chels,
Thanks for listing these.
Under 'Capacity Gauge Bars' #1 the first question about when the warranty kicks in has already been answered...it's when it hits 8 bars.
Under 'Miscellaneous' #3, please add that even though Nissan shouldn't sell them, they should still allow leasing. Some people may misconstrue selling as being in the same vein as leasing.