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Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2013

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:22 pm
by reeler
Volusiano wrote:I attended the meeting. It was videotaped and they said they'll post it up somewhere, maybe on YouTube?

I was totally unimpressed and underwhelmed about the productiveness of the meeting. I think it was just all for show, to give the appearance that they listen and care. But the proof is in the pudding that their 9 bar warranty does not remedy anything at all for the hot climate owners, showing that they couldn't care less about a real and effective solution that will work for hot climate owners.

Nothing new was really divulged from Nissan and no new commitment was made, not that I expected much to begin with anyway. Andy did vow to release the battery pricing at some point, although not exactly when.

Many people expressed that they don't care about the "bar" warranty because it's too fuzzy and inaccurate. They want to see a range warranty instead in terms of miles driven on a charge. Even if Nissan listens and translates the 9 bar warranty into "mile range" warranty, it's still a very lame warranty in my opinion no matter how you dice it, in bars or mile range.

Andy at one point said that they just want to be honest about the capability (or limitation) of the battery capacity up front so that people understand what they're getting into. At that point I wanted to jump in and retort that I wish they would have wanted to be honest about it up front 2 years ago and not 2 years later, now that the cat is already out of the bag (about the heat effect on the battery that they used to claim shouldn't exist).

I came into the meeting hoping to see if maybe they might be willing to acknowledge the fact that they fed early adopters false information about capacity performance in the heat, and that they'd be willing to stand behind their hot climate early adopters to make it right for those owners now in some special way. But of course no such thing happened. I think most people left just as frustrated as when they came in about the heat capacity issue still not resolved to their satisfaction. For sure nobody was jumping up and down for joy over Nissan's 9 bar warranty.

I swear I raised my hand many times so I could get a chance to speak, but too many people wanted to speak so I never got my chance. They were very prompt about cutting it off at 7:30pm and not take any more question except afterward off stage. The meeting ended around 7:40'ish. I think if they really wanted to listen, they could have continued to keep on taking question on stage much further into the night.
Here is a reporter's view from the outside: http://www.kpho.com/video?autoStart=tru ... Id=8156098

There was a 2013 model in attendance. Here are some photos: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... &start=100

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:39 pm
by Boomer23
Well that's a tease, reeler, your thread title makes one think that you have a summary for us. One might suggest a question mark?

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:49 pm
by reeler
Boomer23 wrote:Well that's a tease, reeler, your thread title makes one think that you have a summary for us.
Now you know how I feel. No one in attendance can post a recap? Seriously?

Once I get any information, I will update the first post with a summary.

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:51 pm
by Volusiano
I attended the meeting. It was videotaped and they said they'll post it up somewhere, maybe on YouTube?

I was totally unimpressed and underwhelmed about the productiveness of the meeting. I think it was just all for show, to give the appearance that they listen and care. But the proof is in the pudding that their 9 bar warranty does not remedy anything at all for the hot climate owners, showing that they couldn't care less about a real and effective solution that will work for hot climate owners.

Nothing new was really divulged from Nissan and no new commitment was made, not that I expected much to begin with anyway. Andy did vow to release the battery pricing at some point, although not exactly when.

Many people expressed that they don't care about the "bar" warranty because it's too fuzzy and inaccurate. They want to see a range warranty instead in terms of miles driven on a charge. Even if Nissan listens and translates the 9 bar warranty into "mile range" warranty, it's still a very lame warranty in my opinion no matter how you dice it, in bars or mile range.

Andy at one point said that they just want to be honest about the capability (or limitation) of the battery capacity up front so that people understand what they're getting into. At that point I wanted to jump in and retort that I wish they would have wanted to be honest about it up front 2 years ago and not 2 years later, now that the cat is already out of the bag (about the heat effect on the battery that they used to claim shouldn't exist).

I came into the meeting hoping to see if maybe they might be willing to acknowledge the fact that they fed early adopters false information about capacity performance in the heat, and that they'd be willing to stand behind their hot climate early adopters to make it right for those owners now in some special way. But of course no such thing happened. I think most people left just as frustrated as when they came in about the heat capacity issue still not resolved to their satisfaction. For sure nobody was jumping up and down for joy over Nissan's 9 bar warranty.

I swear I raised my hand many times so I could get a chance to speak, but too many people wanted to speak so I never got my chance. They were very prompt about cutting it off at 7:30pm and not take any more question except afterward off stage. The meeting ended around 7:40'ish. I think if they really wanted to listen, they could have continued to keep on taking question on stage much further into the night.

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:57 pm
by reeler
Volusiano wrote:Nothing new was really divulged from Nissan and no new commitment was made, not that I expected much to begin with anyway.
I expected as much Volusiano. Thanks for the update. In the blogosphere, we had visions of radical 2013 photos "dancing in our heads." "Nothing to see here . . . move along."

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:08 pm
by cwerdna
Boomer23 wrote:Well that's a tease, reeler, your thread title makes one think that you have a summary for us. One might suggest a question mark?
And fix the year too. :)

Wow... very disappointed so far to hear Volusiano's recap. :( Thanks for the info!

Did they at least get answer some of the questions that Chelsea compiled? It sure sounds like they're going to continue selling the Leaf in AZ, TX and other hot climates instead of making them lease only in those areas. If so, we're going to continue to see this cycle each summer...

I would hope that Nissan will be more up front about making sure potential Leaf owners/lessees are ok w/9 bars/70% is sufficient for the expected duration of lease/ownership/warranty.

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:21 pm
by thankyouOB
that's allota wasted exec brass time just to blow us off.
what a bummer.

at least they plan on having a price someday for the battery. would we call that progress?

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:23 pm
by DaveEV
Volusiano wrote:Andy at one point said that they just want to be honest about the capability (or limitation) of the battery capacity up front so that people understand what they're getting into. At that point I wanted to jump in and retort that I wish they would have wanted to be honest about it up front 2 years ago and not 2 years later, now that the cat is already out of the bag (about the heat effect on the battery that they used to claim shouldn't exist).
Exactly. If they wanted to be honest, instead of giving generic 5-year/80-percent and 10-year/70-percent capacity degradation expectations, they'd give more specific information for a handful of climates.

In addition, the currently nearly used battery check report would instead tell you in more detail how your usage is affecting rate of capacity loss along with an estimate of actual capacity loss.

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:39 pm
by evnow
Volusiano wrote:Many people expressed that they don't care about the "bar" warranty because it's too fuzzy and inaccurate. They want to see a range warranty instead in terms of miles driven on a charge. Even if Nissan listens and translates the 9 bar warranty into "mile range" warranty, it's still a very lame warranty in my opinion no matter how you dice it, in bars or mile range.
Hmmm .. how exactly does one gaurantee range ? Would that be EPA range ? If so, wouldn't that be same as gauranteeing a % of capacity ?

Re: Summary of Nissan LEAF Town Hall Meeting on 1/8/2003

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:54 pm
by palmermd
evnow wrote:
Volusiano wrote:Many people expressed that they don't care about the "bar" warranty because it's too fuzzy and inaccurate. They want to see a range warranty instead in terms of miles driven on a charge. Even if Nissan listens and translates the 9 bar warranty into "mile range" warranty, it's still a very lame warranty in my opinion no matter how you dice it, in bars or mile range.
Hmmm .. how exactly does one gaurantee range ? Would that be EPA range ? If so, wouldn't that be same as gauranteeing a % of capacity ?
it would be pretty easy to come up with a protocol for running the car on a dyno. The protocol would set the resistance to a designated resistance for wind and weight...does not really matter if it is exactly accurate, as long at it is the same for every car tested. Nissan could provide a car for the "standard" and all other cars could be tested against that standard. Warranty would be some percentage of the standard. Pretty easy to get access to a dyno anywhere in the world, and results would be universal...no need to worry about wind and terrain.