EvaLeaf
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:07 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Oct 2012
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 miles"

Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:26 pm

Here's the story: We got our 2012 Leaf back in October & love it. Our in-laws came up from SoCal to stay with us over the holidays, and we had a lot of fun showing off the Leaf for them. My mother in law in particular was excited about the car, and in general just really interested in learning more about it. We talked about what we love: never paying for gas, all the cool "techie" features, how quiet and smooth the car is. We mentioned the great deal we got on our lease. We were also upfront with the limitations, mainly range, and we did charge at public stations a few times (and have to switch out to our ICE car once) while they were here. They headed back down south and my MIL said she was going to start tracking her mileage to see if the Leaf would work for her.

Fast forward ~3 months, and my MIL's Honda is looking like it will need some major repairs that may not be cost effective. She calls up one of the Nissan dealers down in San Diego, and emails me with excitement that, "They told me they increased the range to 102 miles and decreased the charging time to 4.5 hours!" Now, she is a smart lady, but she is not the type to be hunting down real-world figures on message board such as this one. I want to be an advocate for the Leaf, but I also do have hesitations about if it would really be the right second car for them (their other car would be a large Ford van that eats gas and isn't very comfortable). They are retired and pretty active, and the types of day trips possible on theoretical "102-mile range" and actual 2013 Leaf SoCal freeway range would be quite different. Leaf would probably get her 90% of her trips, but the other 10% might be quite annoying, require renting a car, etc.

I'm glad she is coming to me for advice on this (and I'm going to advise her to look at a range (haha.."range") of options, including the PIP and Volt), but I just feel kind of bummed that the Nissan dealers don't seem to be really truthful about what the range means. Yes, it may have been improved, but you aren't going to get 102 miles in typical San Diego freeway driving at 70 MPH+. People need to know that to make the decision about if the Leaf is right for them -- and I am disappointed that ~3 years into the Leaf journey we are still seeing this lack of clarity from dealers. As much as I would love to see her get a Leaf, I would rather her not get one if she is going to run into trouble with it.

Okay -- rant over! As a follow up question, thoughts on PIP vs. Volt for someone who takes occasional trips of 50-60 miles each way on the weekends like my MIL?

cwerdna
Posts: 10798
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:40 pm

Sigh.... it is disappointing to continue to hear such BS just like what reps at auto shows have been telling people late last year (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). :(

I wish it would stop as it's only going to lead to very disappointed customers who will be pissed at Nissan, their dealer or both.

Does she plan to lease or buy? If buying, throw in the Rav 4 EV since there are $10K of So Cal Toyota incentives on it (in addition to the Federal tax credit and CVRP).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 850

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:58 pm

I wouldn't get too stuck on the principle of how dealers exaggerate, they all do, I'd look more at what her actual driving needs are and if a real world 75 max miles would fit the bill, most folks use a lot less on a daily basis. I think an average commute of 40 miles with some room for spontaneity and age related range loss is an ideal for fit for the Leaf.
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
9.8 kW PV Solar installed 9/12, http://www.westseattlenaturalenergy.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna
Posts: 10798
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:13 am

^^^
I'm generally concerned about dealers exaggerating or giving misleading range values w/o qualifying them properly. What about folks who don't have friends or family who know what's realistic w/a Leaf?

There's a big difference between something that irks me a lot (e.g. cherrypicking the the highest EPA mileage value for ICEVs, usually highway on non-hybrids) and being disappointed by that vs. quoting a range value that's unattainable by a buyer unless driven very slowly (esp. if it's dangerously slow), making the vehicle useless or near useless for their needs.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
davewill
Posts: 5083
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:35 am

Actually this just sounds like a clueless salesman who charged one up, saw the GOM say 102 miles, and starts spouting it as gospel.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:46 am

Here's my drive in a 2013 LEAF on the freeways of San Diego. I didn't quite make 102 miles.

With no heater or air conditioning at about 65mph, 81 miles of range.

User avatar
DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 2768
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:43 am
Delivery Date: 03 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 23156
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:35 am

For an occasional 50-60 mile trip, even a 102 mile range isn't enough. I forget what the Rav4ev can do, but it might not be enough either.

Can MIL incorporate destination charging, or a QC pitstop?

Can they replace the Ford as well?

With dealers like that, who needs Broders?
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

cwerdna
Posts: 10798
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:06 am

davewill wrote:Actually this just sounds like a clueless salesman who charged one up, saw the GOM say 102 miles, and starts spouting it as gospel.
Or he was clueless and thought the 102 MPGe EPA rating was the range.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

adric22
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:12 am

cwerdna wrote:
davewill wrote:Actually this just sounds like a clueless salesman who charged one up, saw the GOM say 102 miles, and starts spouting it as gospel.
Or he was clueless and thought the 102 MPGe EPA rating was the range.
I just checked and noticed Nissan has changed their website and no longer list the MPGe as their range figure. In fact, now they are listing 75 miles as the range on the website. Which is probably good because that is about right as a maximum figure for most people.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

KJD
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:06 am
Delivery Date: 08 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 15656
Location: SLC, UT
Contact: Website

Re: MIL: Dealer says "they've increased the range to 102 mil

Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:21 am

In cases like this I alway point out that the EPA range number is actually 73 on 2012 and 75 on a 2013. The 102 number is just salesman BS. The 75 mile number is realistic for most people.

If the person in question is borderline on the 75 mile figure, I suggest they demo one overnight and use the car for a days worth of normal driving and see how they do on range. It is much better for the buyer to find their own comfort level, rather than you guessing what they really need.
2012 SL Delivered 12/08/2011
Sold 05/12/2015
2012 Tesla Model S 85

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”