Volusiano
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:36 pm

It looks like Nissan has a preference to promote people to lease instead of buy. So why would it be afraid to publish a battery price that may discourage people from buying? If the price scares people away from wanting to buy a LEAF, it still shouldn't scare anybody away from wanting to lease one if it is in fact the EV they want to get. In fact, it should have the effect Nissan desires -> to lease more than sell.

For those who truly want to buy and not lease no matter what, the lack of a battery price now inhibits them from making a purchase decision. They'll end up buying another EV brand (which has a battery price) and Nissan loses out on a sale anyway. So why not just publish a price even if it's high, with everyone's understanding that the price can only go lower?

So the Nissan's excuse about some survey preventing them from publishing a battery price is not good justification to me. If that's the case, why didn't they also ask those same people in the survey whether they would BUY (not lease) a LEAF if there's no published battery price at all? I would surmise that Nissan will get a overwhelming and resounding NO for a response.

I agree with thankyouOB that Nissan's survey probably did not truly target (and should have targeted) the right audience who just wants to buy and not lease.

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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:48 pm

Volusiano wrote: So why not just publish a price even if it's high, with everyone's understanding that the price can only go lower?
Elon Musk faced the same dilemma as Nissan do.

He came up with a creative solution, as he often does. He allowed those wanting to know a price to pay now to lock the price in for a new battery several years into the future. So he gave a lower future price, which is a gamble on the battery price going down. Musk isn't risk averse so he was happy to do so. That way he avoided quoting a very high number for purchase now, and by making it a 'lock in deal' discouraged most from participating, thereby limiting potential loses if any.

My guess is that Musk's aversion to quoting a battery price for purchase now was for similar reasons as Nissan. It would be bad for business.
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2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
2018 Model 3 20,000 Miles.

TimLee
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Leaf Number: 2026
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:55 pm

JPWhite wrote:My guess is that Musk's aversion to quoting a battery price for purchase now was for similar reasons as Nissan. It would be bad for business.
I think you are right about this. Nissan apparently said as much on Saturday, revealing the current battery price would "hurt sales".
But it is shortsighted for a business to focus only on sales.
A successful business depends on meeting customer's needs / desires in an honest open manner.
I recognize that Nissan is attempting to be more forthcoming, and has communicated better this time than the last time. Improvement is good! :D :D
But in general I don't see how the business of selling all electric vehicles can be a very successful business model when most of the companies are running around refusing to talk honestly about the current real cost of the batteries.
That just makes electric vehicles look very bad. :( :( :( :(

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Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
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TaylorSFGuy
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:32 pm
Delivery Date: 13 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1561
Location: Kent, Washington

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:10 pm

FairwoodRed wrote: I have been following TaylorSFGuy’s posts with a lot of interest because he is the highest mileage driver we have sharing his experiences. He is also very near his pack’s useful life (Only a couple months left for him). I would certainly like to hear him say “I can’t disclose the details, but Nissan is taking care of my needs”. I want him to keep driving his LEAF.

To that end, please consider reaching out to him to see what solution can be worked out. I know that he has tried everything he can to reach out to Nissan and has found no satisfaction.
Thanks for the concern. I have actually been in touch with a few people at Nissan over the last few months - primarily after the event at Eastside Nissan at which you provided my contact information because I wasn't able to attend. Apparently they do know who I am and are aware of the miles I'm driving. Carwings may have as much to do with that as anything else. But regardless they have reached out to me.

As for being near death (battery wise) I have been reassured that I will live longer (without charging stops) due to the information provided by the Bluetooth Android app. Like the other GID meters available gives me more accurate range information than I can get from the dashboard.

I've backed away from my need to know right now on the battery simply because I don't think things are set yet.

As I said above, the market will decide if the rental model will be embraced. I have my doubts. I think there are too many possibilities for problems - what happens if the person stops paying for the battery rental? Do instructions get downloaded to the car not to start? That could open up all kinds of liability issues. I'm not sure you can repo a house if the new hot water heater doesn't get paid for - a lien yes but no repo. What happens if the car is totaled? Does Nissan step up and buy the salvage car? That would make the insurance companies happy - they have someone that would buy at just about any price and could push more cars into being totaled given the higher salvage values. How do you sell your car and who pays the monthly fee while it isn't yours anymore? And then there is the issue of transition between battery ownership and open ended battery rental. So many questions. Maybe EV ownership (at least at these range and price points) will evolve to leasing only and each of us that drives high miles will have to decide if the rental/lease model works for them or not.

I appreciate the concern. I have decided to make the best of my decision to buy and go as long as I can. I will update as things go along. Should be at 100K miles in November.
Mileage as of May 19, 2016 is 150,000 - 147 GID at 100%

Ordered Jan. 21, 2011 Delivered May 13, 2011

Number of months with highest mileage on Carwings - 23

First LEAF to 100,000 Miles in USA if not worldwide
First non commercial LEAF to 150,000 Miles

klapauzius
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:31 pm

I guess the good news from all this is that the new battery will be backwards compatible.

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TomT
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:41 pm

Correct. Left unsaid was whether or not the hot battery would require a BMS software upgrade but it is no big deal either way since they would reset the BMS as part of the swap anyway.
klapauzius wrote:I guess the good news from all this is that the new battery will be backwards compatible.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:58 pm

TaylorSFGuy wrote:
drees wrote: Good strategy - how's yours been holding up? Are you still able to make your commute without charging or do you have to top up along the way?
I currently am down 1 bar with another expected to drop soon. According to the Bluetooth Android App, I am down 24%. Having the app has allowed me to go further than I otherwise would based on standard dashboard information. I am completing the commute somewhere between LBW and VLBW. So I am not stopping either way right now for a top off on a regular basis. Throw in some good headwinds and a lack of traffic and it has been dicey but still made it just after VLBW. The winter is coming and new tires are being put on so things may change around. Will post more details as they come along.
Glad to hear the Summer weather is helping out. I kinda figured it would. However I am not looking forward to this Winter with Ecotality going out of business. Their planned fast charger in DuPont would have worked out perfectly for me but guessing that is not going to happen now.

Today, I went 76 miles to VLB from full charge (237 GID) but no faster than 55 on the freeway and minimal A/C Plus did more surface streets than i normally would have done (shorter slower routes though)

Driving like I did last year, pretty sure I would not be able to do much more than about 70 miles to "near Turtle"
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:02 pm

dhanson865 wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
dhanson865 wrote: Oh and as to the battery price issue, how many Prius owners do you think Toyota lost by having a $5000 battery replacement price on the Gen II (2005-2009). You do know that a few Prius owners over the last decade have had to buy a replacement battery (though many bought batteries from totaled vehicles or bought rebuilt packs some did pay outrageous prices from a Toyota dealership)?
Prius replacement batteries are NOT $5000. See lots o text
Yes, Prius batteries are NOT CURRENTLY $5000, I'm talking past tense back in the day the Toyota dealers used to charge much more for a Prius battery + installation, the price has dropped considerably since then and even past or present dealers will charge you different prices depending on who asks and who they ask.

Please don't jump the gun and try to refute my comment about past issues with quotes about current pricing and don't assume just because the list price is reasonable that a single dealer somewhere won't rip someone off.

Oh and if you think those prices for old battery replacements were harsh talk to the Honda Insight and Honda Civic Hybrid owners that got charged even more for replacement batteries.
His comment is no more inappropriate than yours was. Having owned 3 different Priuses and being fairly well aware of the 2004 Prius launch forward, i can say with strong conviction that there was near ZERO concern among owners over battery replacement issues.

I think we can all agree that fact alone pretty much takes Prius battery pricing at any time out of the discussion
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
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GotMyleaf
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:25 pm
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Leaf Number: 8110
Location: Fontana, CA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:03 pm

I'm glad to hear that Nissan is so very serious about EV's. My LEAF is at 50k miles and 9 bars. The rough plan for replacement sounds fantastic to me!

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TRONZ
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:05 pm

klapauzius wrote:I guess the good news from all this is that the new battery will be backwards compatible.
Yup! The "bridge" for 2011/12 owners to next gen EV's is getting stronger. In many ways the revised pack does not provide much for us in the middle of the temp bell curve but really helps the outliers a lot!
Every start, is as good as any start can ever be. - Douglas Darden

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2011 LEAF SL VIN#202, Delivered 01.30.11. Now, by far, the oldest LEAF in Colorado.

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