Page 3 of 64

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:40 pm
by Hawk0630
This is Jeff from Nissan.

It appears that Brian was warmly received by the community. Brian will be a regular on the forum.

I see that he has responded to a number of questions already. For those that we have not answered immediately, we will verify the question and response with the engineers and come back to this thread with an update.

I see the question about the "battery price" announcement. I (still) am committing to starting a new thread on or before June 20 (the date that Andy committed to) where we will provide details of our program.

Regards,

Jeff

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:46 pm
by Stoaty
I have a question: Does the improved gauge accuracy translate into more energy being available from a fully-charged battery that has lost say two of the original capacity bars? That would be my expectation.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:15 pm
by Stanton
Stoaty wrote:I have a question: Does the improved gauge accuracy translate into more energy being available from a fully-charged battery that has lost say two of the original capacity bars? That would be my expectation.
...and THAT is the $64k question! Couldn't have asked it better myself...
Great to see some official Nissan reps on the forum!

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:34 pm
by Statik
Good stuff from Brian and Jeff giving us the heads up and getting this done before the end of spring. Excited to see some battery cost details...will definitely be putting the word out on this 'tout de suite'

Update: tada! (with proper nod to mynissanleaf of course, hehe)

Nissan Makes Good On Battery Warranty Pledge For 2011-2012 LEAF Owners + Software Update
http://insideevs.com/nissan-makes-good- ... re-update/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:35 pm
by vijayl
Thanks for caming forward and shared/clarified the warranty
I have concerns about how Nissan considers Bars (which represents a Percentage Range) in the Warranty: Based on the Service Manual
  • o 1st bar is lost at 15% of lost capacity
    o Losing 4 bars equate to 66% capacity, NOT 70%
    o Why don't Nissan show the true SoC and % SoC and warranty based on SoC, not number of bars?
    o Can Nissan consider refreshing batteries of both 2011 & 2012 Leafs by 10%, irrespective of number of bars lost?. Meaning at the end of 5year or 60,000miles, if capacity is 70%, they refresh it to make it 77%? Because we are early adapters..

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:22 pm
by Psyclonus
Does "greater compatibility with an expanded range of EV charging equipment" mean that it'll be safe to use the power button on my GE Wattstation following the update? For those of us who are already aware of the potential issue, not being vague about the change would be very helpful. :)

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:45 pm
by Stoaty
vijayl wrote:
  • o Losing 4 bars equate to 66% capacity, NOT 70%
    o Why don't Nissan show the true SoC and % SoC and warranty based on SoC, not number of bars?
    o Can Nissan consider refreshing batteries of both 2011 & 2012 Leafs by 10%, irrespective of number of bars lost?. Meaning at the end of 5year or 60,000miles, if capacity is 70%, they refresh it to make it 77%? Because we are early adapters..
My answers:

1) 3 bars is 72.5% capacity, which doesn't cross the 70% threshold, so they chose 4 bars
2) % SOC is shown for the 2013 models, but apparently wasn't technically feasible for 2011-2012 models based on previous discussion
3) Of course that would be nice, but ain't gonna happen

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:33 pm
by mxp
Stoaty wrote:I have a question: Does the improved gauge accuracy translate into more energy being available from a fully-charged battery that has lost say two of the original capacity bars? That would be my expectation.
While your expectation is a logical idea, the fact remains that the "baseline" of a good battery needs to be clearly and consistently defined. Does 281 GIDs (I forget what the actual number is) represent the reference baseline?

I think your question actually raises a concern that I have:

Will the software update simply alter the algorithm of how the battery capacity is calculated/displayed given the existing state of the battery? I am not sure how to describe it but it's akin to software made to hide the true health of the battery.

Say:
281 GIDs = 12 bars
250 GIDs = 12 bars (after software update)

Surely you wouldn't want to purchase the vehicle with the lower GIDs even though the battery meter indicates full capacity right?

I dislike the idea of this software update made to "mask" the true health of the battery. If the battery does not measure 281 GIDs, it should be warrantied by Nissan. Period.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:35 pm
by dm33
I'm leasing so it doesn't matter that much to me, but....

If I understand that warranty statement, it sounds like someone's battery needs to degrade just enough (a lot, 33% loss?) to qualify for the warranty. But the "fix" only needs to bring it over the bar, such as 1% greater capacity??

Say the benchmark is 70% as in the original note. If capacity of 69% causes it to be a warranty issue, then the fix may only bring it up to 71%?

That doesn't seem very useful.

I worry that this practice will give EVs a bad name. No one will want to touch a used electric vehicle if they know the battery is severely degraded and the fix only marginally improves it.

I would have assumed that the fix would make it like a new battery or at least much closer to new than 70%. Thats a huge amount of loss on a vehicle that already causes a good bit of range anxiety.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:05 pm
by Valdemar
Great that it is now official. However, I can't resist but say that one is likely going to be prudent by delaying the s/w update for the capacity gauge until 60 months or 60,000 miles.