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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:41 am
by thankyouOB
Yes, i was invited and did speak in person at length with chelsea, where i expressed my views and listened to what she had to say. she too is frustrated with nissan's SYB* program and lack of responsiveness due to corporate inertia.

i have no knowledge of other invitee names or how they were invited.

To respond to your personal attack on me, it was not possible to travel from my home in CA to Phoenix. I told chelsea i would be happy and pleased to attend a meeting in LA , but it was not possible to travel due to family issues.
folks can look at your ID and see what was involved in your going to the meeting.

your act may be new here but your comment is truly offensive, aggressive and unwarranted.

to be clear and to correct errors in your post, nissan did not reach out to me or invite me. It was chelsea who reached out to me, invited me and, as a result, i met with her in the LA area.

As it was explained to me, she is not paid or employed by nissan but helped organize the meeting. i have never heard a word from nissan other than through this forum. no one has ever called, emailed, written or otherwise engaged with me.

perhaps, you would like to share where and from whom you received this incomplete and wrong information.

to repeat, perhaps, you would like to share where and from whom you received this incomplete and wrong information; or maybe what you were told was correct, but you dont know how to listen or repeat things with accuracy.

--
now, let's get back to discussing what nissan plans to do about improving battery capacity, heat tolerance, availability as replacement parts, and their ability to communicate with people on this forum with accuracy and timeliness.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:41 am
by scottf200
Nissan Tests New Heat-Resistant Battery For Leaf Electric Car
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/108 ... ectric-car" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is an interesting comment. Must be some downsides to the new pack. Some characteristics that make it better in moderate climates or cost or whatever. Seems like it will cause some confusions if LEAFs are transported to other states and be sold (ie. after a lease).
Nissan has not yet decided whether the new battery would be fitted to all new Leafs, executives told Green Car Reports in an interview.
Summary:
The executives told the Leaf owners that, assuming the new battery goes into production, Nissan will provide a coupon to every owner who has a pack replaced before next April [2014].

That coupon, keyed to the car's VIN, and fully transferable, will entitle the owner to a further replacement pack based on the new chemistry if required, for a period of five years.
As Tony pointed out what Nissan does with the LEAF has lots of ramifications to the EV movement.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:55 am
by TaylorSFGuy
drees wrote: Good strategy - how's yours been holding up? Are you still able to make your commute without charging or do you have to top up along the way?
I currently am down 1 bar with another expected to drop soon. According to the Bluetooth Android App, I am down 24%. Having the app has allowed me to go further than I otherwise would based on standard dashboard information. I am completing the commute somewhere between LBW and VLBW. So I am not stopping either way right now for a top off on a regular basis. Throw in some good headwinds and a lack of traffic and it has been dicey but still made it just after VLBW. The winter is coming and new tires are being put on so things may change around. Will post more details as they come along.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:59 am
by ttweed
TomT wrote:I forgot to mention one item that may be of interest to some: The P3227 update. We were told that the tolerance prior to the update was plus or minus 10 percent... After the update it is now plus 0 and minus 4 percent.
More details, please--what does this mean? "Tolerance" of what? Plus or minus in relation to what? I don't understand the statement, but it sounds important....

TT

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:59 am
by TomT
We asked at the Phoenix meeting and were told that it was slightly more expensive. They claim no difference in capacity or other parameters... Also, what I was told would seem to indicate that wider use is planned for the battery than what the article alludes to. If you think about it, it ultimately makes no sense to have two different batteries to deal with in manufacturing, inventory and distribution without a very strong incentive to do so...
scottf200 wrote:This is an interesting comment. Must be some downsides to the new pack. Some characteristics that make it better in moderate climates or cost or whatever.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:08 am
by TomT
This was almost an aside comment, and I didn't have the chance to query in detail, but the gist was that the BMS prior to the P3227 upgrade had a much wider tolerance in its capacity measurement, display, and battery control, and also did not compensate for temperature optimally. This was greatly tightened up in the update and is now similar to the 2013 algorithms. So, depending on the particular circumstances of a given car, you may have already been in the center of the tolerance and there would be no appreciable difference, or you might have been at outlier and experience something more of a difference, post update.
ttweed wrote:
TomT wrote:I forgot to mention one item that may be of interest to some: The P3227 update. We were told that the tolerance prior to the update was plus or minus 10 percent... After the update it is now plus 0 and minus 4 percent.
More details, please--what does this mean? "Tolerance" of what? Plus or minus in relation to what? I don't understand the statement, but it sounds important....

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:14 am
by phxsmiley
Just saw this link that has more information about the Phoenix meeting. This appears to have information that came from corporate, as I don't remember hearing that the Hot Battery coupon was tied our VIN, and transferrable:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/108 ... ectric-car

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:17 am
by dgpcolorado
TomT wrote:This was almost an aside comment, and I didn't have the chance to query in detail, but the gist was that the BMS prior to the P3227 upgrade had a much wider tolerance in its capacity measurement, display, and battery control, and also did not compensate for temperature optimally. This was greatly tightened up in the update and is now similar to the 2013 algorithms. So, depending on the particular circumstances of a given car, you may have already been in the center of the tolerance and there would be no appreciable difference, or you might have been at outlier and experience something more of a difference, post update.
Thanks TomT. That is interesting and seems to explain the variable results we've seen after the update.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:38 am
by dhanson865
cwerdna wrote:
dhanson865 wrote: Oh and as to the battery price issue, how many Prius owners do you think Toyota lost by having a $5000 battery replacement price on the Gen II (2005-2009). You do know that a few Prius owners over the last decade have had to buy a replacement battery (though many bought batteries from totaled vehicles or bought rebuilt packs some did pay outrageous prices from a Toyota dealership)?
Prius replacement batteries are NOT $5000. See lots o text
Yes, Prius batteries are NOT CURRENTLY $5000, I'm talking past tense back in the day the Toyota dealers used to charge much more for a Prius battery + installation, the price has dropped considerably since then and even past or present dealers will charge you different prices depending on who asks and who they ask.

Please don't jump the gun and try to refute my comment about past issues with quotes about current pricing and don't assume just because the list price is reasonable that a single dealer somewhere won't rip someone off.

Oh and if you think those prices for old battery replacements were harsh talk to the Honda Insight and Honda Civic Hybrid owners that got charged even more for replacement batteries.

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:40 am
by jhm614
TomT wrote:This was almost an aside comment, and I didn't have the chance to query in detail, but the gist was that the BMS prior to the P3227 upgrade had a much wider tolerance in its capacity measurement, display, and battery control, and also did not compensate for temperature optimally. This was greatly tightened up in the update and is now similar to the 2013 algorithms. So, depending on the particular circumstances of a given car, you may have already been in the center of the tolerance and there would be no appreciable difference, or you might have been at outlier and experience something more of a difference, post update.
It was my impressions that the change was to the small "state of health" bars and not large "state of charge" bars. Correct?

j.