User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9644
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:59 am

Valdemar wrote:Mine is about same age and I can still can do 72 miles in mixed cycle on mostly flat terrain just after hitting LBW. Never needed to go farther on a single charge but I'm guessing 80 is not out of the question. 100 mile claim was a stretch, but doable still.

Me too. In fact, older. It takes careful driving, but I can still make 70-75 miles at full highway speeds.

Here is something that is bothering me - I am down to ~220 Gids on a charge. With the accepted threshold for bar loss being ~232 Gids, technically I should have lost a bar some time ago. Yet I still have all twelve. What is up with that?

Another thing that bothers me is the similarity between my car and xtremeflyer's - our cars are more or less the same age (mine was delivered 5 months earlier); we're at the same mileage; we live in similar micro-climates (Garden Grove vs. Orange, unless he lives up in the hills?); and it looks like our commutes are similar and our cars sit in similar micro-climates while we work (I work in Hawthorne and I assume, if he's doing 10 miles more than me daily, he's up around there too?). So, theoretically speaking, our battery packs should be twins. Yet he's lost two bars already? It just doesn't make sense. Actually, I'd like to discuss any unknown differences between him and me. The only one that seems like it could possibly make a difference to the pack is parking - I let my car sit out at night, and I'm wondering if his might be garaged? Xtremeflyer?
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 83,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

User avatar
JPWhite
Gold Member
Posts: 1784
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:41 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5734
Location: Hendersonville TN
Contact: Website Yahoo Messenger AOL

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:53 am

Valdemar wrote:Great that it is now official. However, I can't resist but say that one is likely going to be prudent by delaying the s/w update for the capacity gauge until 60 months or 60,000 miles.
The way its worded you maybe right. However I also assume the s/w update will allow the LEAF to regain some of the driving range lost to a pessimistic evaluation of the battery health. So there is IMHO a benefit to the s/w update in driving range which may or may not be of value to the owner. Leased LEAF's will benefit the most by gaining range back if intending to turn the vehicle in at the end of the lease period.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
2018 Model 3 20,000 Miles.

User avatar
JPWhite
Gold Member
Posts: 1784
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:41 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5734
Location: Hendersonville TN
Contact: Website Yahoo Messenger AOL

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:09 am

usadiamond wrote:This warranty just sounds offensive to me. A leaf with 9 bars or less is no better than a golf cart. First, false advertisement about 100 mile range BS and now warranty to guarantee 49 mile range?! I'd rather Nissan to be straight up and just tell the 1st gen Leaf owners to suck it up and prepare for their cars to run useless in a few years.
I still have all 12 bars, but only get about 60 mile range down from 80 after less than two years. #nissandisappointing
Sorry you feel this way. I am glad Nissan is standing behind it's product and would not want them to "tell the 1st gen Leaf owners to suck it up". So speak for yourself.

If you have lost 20 miles out of the 80 you had originally I make two observations.

1. The s/w update should restore some of your lost range, by how much remains to be seen.
2. I assume you are exaggerating, since 25% loss of range would mean the first (if not second) bar would be extinguished by now, especially true since the old software is pessimistic.

As for your comment about warranting 49 mile range only. While it does not match the marketing behind the vehicle, it is actually close to the range I tell potential owners to expect after many years of ownership. I advise folks to consider a LEAF if their daily round trip commute is 50 miles or less and intend to drive the LEAF like their ICE. I add if they are willing to change driving habits a little, they should be OK with a round trip commute of 60 miles. I factor in charging to 80%, winter reduced mileage and long term battery degradation.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
2018 Model 3 20,000 Miles.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10642
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:02 am

Of course, to do it, you DO have to drive it like it is a golf cart! :lol:

As far as bars and gids, your results ARE weird as I have lost about the same number of Gids but also two bars!
mwalsh wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Mine is about same age and I can still can do 72 miles in mixed cycle on mostly flat terrain just after hitting LBW. Never needed to go farther on a single charge but I'm guessing 80 is not out of the question. 100 mile claim was a stretch, but doable still.
Me too. In fact, older. It takes careful driving, but I can still make 70-75 miles at full highway speeds.

Here is something that is bothering me - I am down to ~220 Gids on a charge. With the accepted threshold for bar loss being ~232 Gids, technically I should have lost a bar some time ago. Yet I still have all twelve. What is up with that?
Last edited by TomT on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10642
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:03 am

I don't expect to see any change in range, just a slightly more accurate capacity meter... I don't believe that the two are related.
JPWhite wrote:The way its worded you maybe right. However I also assume the s/w update will allow the LEAF to regain some of the driving range lost to a pessimistic evaluation of the battery health. So there is IMHO a benefit to the s/w update in driving range which may or may not be of value to the owner. Leased LEAF's will benefit the most by gaining range back if intending to turn the vehicle in at the end of the lease period.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14169
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:08 am

usadiamond wrote:This warranty just sounds offensive to me. A leaf with 9 bars or less is no better than a golf cart. First, false advertisement about 100 mile range BS and now warranty to guarantee 49 mile range?! I'd rather Nissan to be straight up and just tell the 1st gen Leaf owners to suck it up and prepare for their cars to run useless in a few years.
I still have all 12 bars, but only get about 60 mile range down from 80 after less than two years. #nissandisappointing
70% of 84 miles is 58.8 which is disappointing but then the warranty kicks in. its high mileage people like Steve who still doesn't have the option to plan financially for future options because of the unknown battery cost which has 2 weeks to be resolved...maybe
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:26 am

TomT wrote:I don't expect to see any change in range, just a slightly more accurate capacity meter... I don't believe that the two are related.
Agreed. However, it appeared that there were some LEAFs in last year's Phoenix range test which had somehow squirreled away a bunch of range below LBW. If this update can have the result that more of the total available range will exist above LBW, then I would consider that a nice improvement which would increase the USABLE range of the car.

Here's hoping, anyway...
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:20 am

JPWhite wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Great that it is now official. However, I can't resist but say that one is likely going to be prudent by delaying the s/w update for the capacity gauge until 60 months or 60,000 miles.
The way its worded you maybe right. However I also assume the s/w update will allow the LEAF to regain some of the driving range lost to a pessimistic evaluation of the battery health. So there is IMHO a benefit to the s/w update in driving range which may or may not be of value to the owner. Leased LEAF's will benefit the most by gaining range back if intending to turn the vehicle in at the end of the lease period.
you gain range back with the new software?
that is not how i read it. it reads to me that you get better, more accurate numbers on the dash and in the GOM, not that the car actually rolls farther before it goes LBW.

the software tweak is just PR not a real change in range. isnt that CORRECT?

Perhaps the NISSAN rep can explain the real-world effect in range of the software update?
Brian of Nissan did say this:
The 2013 LEAF features many improvements, including updated software that improves the performance of the battery capacity level gauge (outlined below) to more accurately reflect actual battery capacity. This update does not change the amount of capacity represented by the each of the bars in the meter.

so, I read that to me nothing changes in range, just how the car tells us about the health of our battery and its potential for holding a charge.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:30 am

Hawk0630 wrote:This is Jeff from Nissan.

It appears that Brian was warmly received by the community. Brian will be a regular on the forum.

I see that he has responded to a number of questions already. For those that we have not answered immediately, we will verify the question and response with the engineers and come back to this thread with an update.

I see the question about the "battery price" announcement. I (still) am committing to starting a new thread on or before June 20 (the date that Andy committed to) where we will provide details of our program.

Regards,

Jeff
thanks.
we solstice observers will be counting down the days.

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:35 am

Stoaty wrote: According to Nissan, it's the other way around. The current software "masks" the true health of the battery, making it look like it has lost more capacity than it has actually lost. The software update is designed to reveal the true health of the battery. There is plenty of information in the Wiki to support their contention that the current gauge is overly pessimistic about battery capacity. You can read all about it:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PS Even with the current bars, 12 capacity bars covers a range of about 232 Gids to 281 Gids. It's only when you get below around 232 Gids that you lose the first capacity bar.
if the battery software update improves accuracy, i am assuming that NISSAN will require that 2011 owners get the upgrade before they are considered for any warranty work on battery.

logically, it may even move some battery eligibles out of warranty eligibility.

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”