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TomT
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:18 pm

Make mine Red Velvet please.
TonyWilliams wrote:But everybody knows that a chocolate cake is best, so why even make the others?
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:19 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:4. Any competitor to the Tesla products must have a robust quick recharging / battery swapping capability. My advice; buy into the Tesla Supercharger network. I will gladly pay the $1500 - $2500 for "free for life" recharging that I can use anywhere in North America.
I just wanted to add that my vision of the uber awesome EV would have both the CHAdeMO port and the Tesla Supercharger port that can use the standard Tesla adapter to use J1772.

smkettner
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:39 pm

Nissan can build their own SC network. With 350 miles range Nissan will not need near as many like CHAdeMo.
I wonder what solar company Nissan will partner with ;)
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
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mwalsh
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:59 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:But everybody knows that a chocolate cake is best, so why even make the others?
But chocolate cake, like Nissan battery packs, will not fare well in the heat.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 87,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
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Stoaty
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:06 pm

Sounds like the new battery pack may have the electrolyte mentioned in the more heat resistant battery in the research article I linked to, plus the new separator which probably accounts for the slightly increased cost. Even in southern California, I want one!
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
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TimLee
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:13 pm

Stoaty wrote:Sounds like the new battery pack may have the electrolyte mentioned in the more heat resistant battery in the research article I linked to, plus the new separator which probably accounts for the slightly increased cost. Even in southern California, I want one!
I think eventually almost everyone will want / need one. :D
But if you've been unfortunate enough for your battery to have survived past the capacity warranty that Nissan gave us in settlement of the class action law suit, you might not be very happy with the rental price. ;)
Hopefully they will make the price some function of miles driven. Otherwise for a low miles per year driver the $100 per month rental will exceed the savings from using electricity instead of gasoline. Of course it will take a while for the total lifetime cost to exceed the gasoline savings. But that's why the price needs to be a function of miles driven. Otherwise the electric vehicle total cost of ownership will exceed the cost of having bought an ICE in 2011. :( :o :shock:

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
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Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

WetEV
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:19 pm

TimLee wrote:It is becoming more and more clear that it is completely unrealistic for most LEAF purchaser's total cost of ownership to be less than driving a comparable ICE that they purchase.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 94#p220191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The battery is a consumable, and future battery replacement needs to be accounted for in the cost of ownership.

To break even vs a smelly noisy jerky gasoline car isn't my goal, but if it was:

Battery cost per mile are going to be significant, for many people. Life will vary depending on temperature, the cost is unknown. But let us put some reasonable bounds on it.

Phoenix, AZ, for a 5,000 miles per year, battery EOL (End Of Life) of 70%, battery life of just more than 5 years (just missing the warranty) and 25,000 miles, high battery replacement cost of US$15000, cost per mile of $0.60
Juneau, AK, for 30,000 miles per year, EOL at 70%, battery life of about 10 years and 300k miles, low battery replacement cost of $4000, cost per mile of $0.013
Raleigh, NC, for 12,500 miles per year, EOL at 70%, battery life of about 9 years and 112,500 miles, mid replacement cost of $8000, cost per mile of $0.071

The above costs are of course for battery only, need to add several cents per mile for electric power, more for insurance, licenses, tires, etc..

Also, EOL might be high or lower than 70%. If the Phoenix driver could live with 50% EOL it would halve the cost per mile.

Compare with a Prius gas cost of $2, $4 and $6 and resulting costs per mile of $0.04, $0.08 and $0.12
At somewhere around $5 per gallon gasoline, the average driver might be close to breaking even on the battery+electric power vs gasoline. Someone in the Pacific NW that drives a reasonable number of miles (not too many and not too few) and can live with a 70% EOL and doesn't DCQC and doesn't deep cycle the battery and probably a long list of other items, that person might be ahead over the life of the car, if the gas price stays near the current $3.70 per gallon or $1/liter.
WetEV
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Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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TomT
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:20 pm

Yep, me too. My pack has been averaging around 88 degrees the last couple of weeks as we've had a couple of heat waves... I'd leave the Leaf outside at night where it is cooler than the garage but my EVSE is at the front of the garage and won't reach...
Stoaty wrote:Sounds like the new battery pack may have the electrolyte mentioned in the more heat resistant battery in the research article I linked to, plus the new separator which probably accounts for the slightly increased cost. Even in southern California, I want one!
Last edited by TomT on Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:06 pm

TomT wrote:Yep, my pack has been averaging around 88 degrees the last couple of weeks as we've had a couple of heat waves... I'd leave the Leaf outside at night where it is cooler than the garage but my EVSE is at the front of the garage and won't reach...
I've found over the summer my battery staying 10-15F above ambient most of the time. It does retain heat for a long while after parking. Last night the battery was 91F when I plugged it in for its overnight charge at 9:30pm. Ambient was low 80's by then. The Battery was still 84F this morning while the garage was at 70F.
--
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2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
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smkettner
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Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:29 pm

WetEV wrote:Also, EOL might be high or lower than 70%. If the Phoenix driver could live with 50% EOL it would halve the cost per mile.

So what cost more...

A) 85 mile battery with EOL at 70% (60 miles)
B) 180 mile battery with EOL at 35% (63 miles)
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

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