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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:33 am
by Stanton
I think it's absolutely amazing that we are talking about the same topic (lack of TMS) almost 9 years after the introduction of the Leaf! If Nissan had only increased battery pack capacity (say double) like we all assumed (remember what happens when you assume), then we probably wouldn't still be talking about it. In fact, Nissan would probably be collecting additional revenue from Leaf owners (like myself) who would have gladly paid for the larger battery capacities available today. Missed opportunities...

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:52 am
by SageBrush
Stanton wrote:I think it's absolutely amazing that we are talking about the same topic (lack of TMS) almost 9 years after the introduction of the Leaf!
Believe it. Nissan made a big bet in 2010 that did not go as intended. They have been squeezing water out of that stone ever since in hopes of limiting their losses and to time the write-off as best they can. The Nissan EV program is in zombie mode and only the most self-deluded cannot see it.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:52 pm
by fotajoye
Stanton wrote:I think it's absolutely amazing that we are talking about the same topic (lack of TMS) almost 9 years after the introduction of the Leaf! If Nissan had only increased battery pack capacity (say double) like we all assumed (remember what happens when you assume), then we probably wouldn't still be talking about it. In fact, Nissan would probably be collecting additional revenue from Leaf owners (like myself) who would have gladly paid for the larger battery capacities available today. Missed opportunities...
Exactly; they have made poor EV policy decisions, especially having to do with batteries...and I think they have lost many returning customers ($$$) as a result.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:37 pm
by jlatl
The problem is that they have taken the vehicle and tied it's life to that of the battery. For example, when my 2013 hits 60K-80K miles on it and I need to replace the battery (1 bar lost at 45K) it will have a blue book value of about $4K-$5K and a replacement battery is about $6K.
Very few people will want to invest that much in an older car with a range so much less than current models.
I expect I will use the car until the range has dropped so much it cannot be used for simple errands, then junk it. A pity for a vehicle that should have so much life in it.
Another example of Nissan's failure to take care of it's customers that annoys me is the how the bluetooth works. You can make phone calls, but not play music through it or much of anything else, and they have no upgrades. This is even more insulting if you know how computer code works. Everything is written in modules and you know they have updated the modules for bluetooth connectivity for new models. It should be a simple task to insert the new modules to to the Leaf software and offer updates.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:50 pm
by cwerdna
jlatl wrote:The problem is that they have taken the vehicle and tied it's life to that of the battery. For example, when my 2013 hits 60K-80K miles on it and I need to replace the battery (1 bar lost at 45K) it will have a blue book value of about $4K-$5K and a replacement battery is about $6K.
Very few people will want to invest that much in an older car with a range so much less than current models.
I expect I will use the car until the range has dropped so much it cannot be used for simple errands, then junk it. A pity for a vehicle that should have so much life in it.
Replacement is now more than $6K. It seems to be somewhere past $7K w/labor and tax.

My used 5/2013 built '13 SV is past 62K miles and still has 11 bars w/SOH hovering around 82.xx to 83.xx% now. I lost my 1st bar in Nov 2017 (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 15#p511915).
jlatl wrote: Another example of Nissan's failure to take care of it's customers that annoys me is the how the bluetooth works. You can make phone calls, but not play music through it or much of anything else, and they have no upgrades. This is even more insulting if you know how computer code works. Everything is written in modules and you know they have updated the modules for bluetooth connectivity for new models. It should be a simple task to insert the new modules to to the Leaf software and offer updates.
It's because you got the S trim. The head unit in the S trim only support phone calls over Bluetooth. For all we know, its hardware doesn't support A2DP music streaming and the other profiles like AVRCP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B ... h_profiles).

The head unit in the SV and SL trim supports Bluetooth music streaming just fine. I use it all the time for that. I've had a '13 SV w/both packages and a now just an '13 SV w/premium. I believe even then '11 and '12 SV and SL head units supported Bluetooth music streaming. It's in the '11 Leaf's navigation manual.

I do agree that it's unfortunate that Nissan's not in the habit of providing any updates for free or at a cost other than for recalls, service campaigns or to fix something that usually has no UI besides expensive map updates. On the flip side, look at it from a business point of view, how many other automakers on '13 model year vehicles besides Tesla are generally in the habit of doing this, esp. across all their vehicles? Once a vehicle's sold, it's not a big revenue stream for the automaker. They'd rather work on fixes and the next thing (which will bring in significant revenue) than spend resources (dev, test, technical/documentation writers, etc.) on something that isn't bringing any significant revenue.

(Tesla since they began reporting P&L publicly has lost over a net of $5.6 billion w/only 3 profitable quarters, ever.)

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:01 pm
by jlatl
cwerdna,

1. The increased cost of replacement battery just makes my point stronger on it's life being tied to the original battery.
2. Thanks for the info on how the bluetooth works differently depending on the model. I wish I had known that when I was making my purchase decision.
3. I understand your comments on it not making a lot of sense to provide updates, but as you stated, the improved software exists. They could offer it at a cost for those who want it. Since it is software it is really a pretty low cost to them, and would be a revenue stream.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:09 pm
by cwerdna
jlatl wrote: 3. I understand your comments on it not making a lot of sense to provide updates, but as you stated, the improved software exists. They could offer it at a cost for those who want it. Since it is software it is really a pretty low cost to them, and would be a revenue stream.
You're making the assumption it's only software. It's possible that the head unit HARDWARE on S trim Leafs of your year all the way thru '15 may not be physically capable of supporting it. As I said, my '13 SV w/premium has it. It seems like '11 and '12 Leafs (only SV and SL trims existed back then) had it too.

And, how many people would pay for it, whatever they might happen to charge? You've got to factor in dealer tech time as well, say 15 minutes to 30 minutes? (Yeah yeah, I know I know... I wish the updates were OTA but that's another story.)

BTW, thanks to a thread on an FB group with the pic of a head unit (which I later found out was for an S trim), it got me curious about looking up part numbers.

For the '13 S (not sure if https://parts.nissanusa.com/nissanparts ... ehid=17708 will work), the stereo is part number 281853NF0B.

For a '16 S per https://parts.nissanusa.com/nissanparts ... code=28185, the stereo part numbers for an S could be 28185-4NS0A or
28185-9MB0A. (https://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa ... -press-kit per Specs tab alleges that all 3 trim levels have Bluetooth streaming audio whereas prior ones didn't.)

I found of a pic of a 28185 3NF0B via https://www.ebay.com/i/252725183040?chn=ps. The top of it of course has that part # and a model # of CQ-FN02E04D.

I found a pic of 28185 9MB0A via https://www.ebay.com/p/2015-Nissan-Sent ... 896&chn=ps and it has model # CQ-FN84E2GX.

Who knows if there are some internal difference or if it's just firmware?

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 am
by tjleis
solartim wrote:
jdcbomb wrote:
SageBrush wrote: I agree that Nissan is screwing LEAF owners .......
........
Update: So I just called and their immediate answer is no warranty replacement or financial assistance will be offered. No way to escalate. Pricing is still $6,500 + labor + tax. I guess I could try and send a note to Nissan Consumer Affairs, but I think that may be a waste of time and effort also...
I was just quoted $8800 for a new battery for my 2011 Leaf at Mossy in SD. We're down to 6 bars and get 40 miles range. The good thing is my wife only works 8 miles away, the only question is how soon to trade it in. Very jealous of my neighbors, who leased theirs.
Hi.. I'm a newbie to the forum. I'm concerned that Nissan wont help you with a battery replacement. I have been driving 2011 leaf for over two years.. Its down to 7 bars and the dealer says the battery is still under warranty. Can I expect any issues from Nissan to have them honor the warranty. From looking at some comments in this forum I'm unsure what to expect from Nissan.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:06 am
by SageBrush
tjleis wrote: Hi.. I'm a newbie to the forum. I'm concerned that Nissan wont help you with a battery replacement. I have been driving 2011 leaf for over two years.. Its down to 7 bars and the dealer says the battery is still under warranty. Can I expect any issues from Nissan to have them honor the warranty. From looking at some comments in this forum I'm unsure what to expect from Nissan.
Your dealer is confused. There is a battery defect warranty that is still in effect but that will not apply to degradation. The battery degradation warranty has lapsed in your car.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:46 am
by fotajoye
SageBrush wrote:
tjleis wrote: Hi.. I'm a newbie to the forum. I'm concerned that Nissan wont help you with a battery replacement. I have been driving 2011 leaf for over two years.. Its down to 7 bars and the dealer says the battery is still under warranty. Can I expect any issues from Nissan to have them honor the warranty. From looking at some comments in this forum I'm unsure what to expect from Nissan.
Your dealer is confused. There is a battery defect warranty that is still in effect but that will not apply to degradation. The battery degradation warranty has lapsed in your car.
Your situation is interesting; please let us know how you make out and the costs; Dealing with Nissan can be difficult; but, who knows, you may get a special deal.