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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:55 pm
by johnlocke
WetEV wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:44 pm
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:49 am
WetEV wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:30 am
For an around town and commuting car, I'd rather have a battery pack with no water close to the cells. The correct answer long term is choice.
Wrong again. The correct answer is a battery that can last the life of the car.
My Leaf 2014 is closing on 6 years/60k miles with ~87% SOH. I'm reasonably happy with the expected life of the car, and very happy with the low maintenance. And the zero reported battery fires in Nissan Leafs.

You are sure I should not have the chance to buy another Leaf. Ever again. Thanks.
Given your lack of battery degradation you won't ever need to buy another Leaf anyway. I never said you couldn't buy another Leaf, just that that battery ought to last as long as the rest of the car.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:03 am
by WetEV
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:55 pm
Given your lack of battery degradation you won't ever need to buy another Leaf anyway. I never said you couldn't buy another Leaf, just that that battery ought to last as long as the rest of the car.
Oh, I can buy another Leaf, as long as it is water cooled. Thanks. Thanks so much.

I like my Leaf. I'm amazed at the hatred expressed at the Leaf and at Nissan.

I'm actually more afraid that the only car available in 10 years will be a Tesla. Stock at $720, only justifiable if Tesla will get and holds a monopoly on cars.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:08 pm
by GaleHawkins
WetEV wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:03 am
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:55 pm
Given your lack of battery degradation you won't ever need to buy another Leaf anyway. I never said you couldn't buy another Leaf, just that that battery ought to last as long as the rest of the car.
Oh, I can buy another Leaf, as long as it is water cooled. Thanks. Thanks so much.

I like my Leaf. I'm amazed at the hatred expressed at the Leaf and at Nissan.

I'm actually more afraid that the only car available in 10 years will be a Tesla. Stock at $720, only justifiable if Tesla will get and holds a monopoly on cars.
What car companies have ever been proven in court to be a monopoly? I know about Standard Oil and the phone companies being declared monopolies but I can not recall any car company. It could be decades before all EV's made can't find buyers. I think it shows a lack of interest that no EV makers have come out with an EV that matches the range of what Tesla was selling as 2012 Model S.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:31 pm
by WetEV
GaleHawkins wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:08 pm
What car companies have ever been proven in court to be a monopoly? I know about Standard Oil and the phone companies being declared monopolies but I can not recall any car company. It could be decades before all EV's made can't find buyers. I think it shows a lack of interest that no EV makers have come out with an EV that matches the range of what Tesla was selling as 2012 Model S.
GM limited market share to avoid anti-trust action in the 1950's and 1960's. GM had a nearly 50% market share. Antitrust case was started in the 1960's, but then Toyota and others started winning.

EV production and sales has been and is likely to roughly double every 2-3 years. So roughly 10 to 15 years out, if Tesla maintains market share of EVs, Tesla will top GM's market share.

Lack of interest can be fatal.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:59 pm
by johnlocke
WetEV wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:03 am
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:55 pm
Given your lack of battery degradation you won't ever need to buy another Leaf anyway. I never said you couldn't buy another Leaf, just that that battery ought to last as long as the rest of the car.
Oh, I can buy another Leaf, as long as it is water cooled. Thanks. Thanks so much.

I like my Leaf. I'm amazed at the hatred expressed at the Leaf and at Nissan.

I'm actually more afraid that the only car available in 10 years will be a Tesla. Stock at $720, only justifiable if Tesla will get and holds a monopoly on cars.
Don't blame me for Nissan's decisions. Nissan could figure out how to air cool the battery if they wanted. Heat pipes to a fin assembly comes to mind. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't want a battery that lasts for several 100,000 miles. By the way, you can't buy an air cooled VW anymore either.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:36 pm
by LeftieBiker
By the way, you can't buy an air cooled VW anymore either.

Well, you just ruined his day! Seriously, I used to think that WetEV just used the tiny risk of fire as an excuse, but I'm starting to think that he really believes that driving a car with a water cooled battery is like driving a 1972 Pinto hatchback on the Autobahn, risk-wise.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:58 pm
by DougWantsALeaf
Careful, you will date yourself with the Pinto reference.

I think Nissan made a conscious decision to not add liquid cooling for cost, and will change with the next gen platform.

With EVs sales popping in Europe, guessing they will rise a bit with the tide. The US will continue to see timid sales. Maybe preserve the end of the full 7500 rebate for launch of the new car next year.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:20 pm
by WetEV
johnlocke wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:59 pm
Don't blame me for Nissan's decisions. Nissan could figure out how to air cool the battery if they wanted. Heat pipes to a fin assembly comes to mind. What I don't understand is why you wouldn't want a battery that lasts for several 100,000 miles. By the way, you can't buy an air cooled VW anymore either.
Most common working fluid in a heat pipe is water. I'd prefer no water in the battery pack, please.

At 10-12 thousand miles a year, "several 100,000 miles" would be 20+ years. Almost always worth owning a car newer than average for better reliability, safety and technology, at least in my opinion. Average age of a car is about 12 years.

A 24kWh Leaf meets my needs and expectations. If it doesn't meet yours, buy something else. A 40kWh Leaf should be able to drive the same commute for much longer. Or if you live in an extreme climate and have an iron butt, get a Bolt.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:50 pm
by fotajoye
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:58 pm
Careful, you will date yourself with the Pinto reference.

I think Nissan made a conscious decision to not add liquid cooling for cost, and will change with the next gen platform.

With EVs sales popping in Europe, guessing they will rise a bit with the tide. The US will continue to see timid sales. Maybe preserve the end of the full 7500 rebate for launch of the new car next year.
I agree; Nissan sales are down since Ghosn was replaced. After 10 years of not advancing their battery tech, perhaps the new CEO has a better plan. I wonder if He will define a positive 1st gen battery replacement solution.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:58 pm
by LeftieBiker
Equally likely, he will suggest that Nissan de-emphasize EVs and just sell the Leaf until it's obsolete.