minispeed
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information

Thu May 21, 2015 12:23 pm

ishiyakazuo wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:This appears to be Nissan's answer to the Kia Soul EV, but obviously they will have to compete against the GM Bolt in just 1.5 years (likely a 36-40kWh battery).

The Tesla Model 3 will likely be offered as a 50kWh car, with a real 200 mile range at 55mph on perfect days.
It's funny, my thought was this is their answer to Volt 2.0. With 50 miles of range plus a range extender, the jump to an 84 mile Leaf is a bridge too far for many consumers.

Kia Soul is good competition, but with such low production rates set for 2016, I don't think that Nissan is losing any appreciable sales (or sleep) because of it. Now Leaf 2 will obviously have stiff competition with the Bolt and Model III around. So that's where I expect to see the *real* range increase (i.e. 150-200 miles).
I suspect there's truth in both the Soul EV and the Volt 2 being factors. Nissan is simply seeing more competition and knows they need to step it up.
Or maybe it's a way to insulate against a tank in 2016 sales once details of the leaf 2 start to come out like we saw with the volt. It may also be to increase residual values so that they can still offer attractive lease rates.
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dgpcolorado
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information

Thu May 21, 2015 12:35 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:This appears to be Nissan's answer to the Kia Soul EV, but obviously they will have to compete against the GM Bolt in just 1.5 years (likely a 36-40kWh battery).

The Tesla Model 3 will likely be offered as a 50kWh car, with a real 200 mile range at 55mph on perfect days.
Not that my crystal ball is any better than yours, but I'm guessing the base Model 3 will have a 60 kWh battery. Musk has said that he wants a minimum 200 mile "real world" range and 50 kWh won't achieve that.
We need over 200 miles range in the real world, not 200 miles in ‘air-conditioning off, driving on flat road’ mode.
I wouldn't be surprised if the base Model 3 had a 70 kWh battery (with the S and X getting sizable increases over current options).

I don't expect the Gen2 LEAF to be competitive with the Model 3, if the latter car is released near the targeted price and specs.
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minispeed
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information

Thu May 21, 2015 12:50 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:This appears to be Nissan's answer to the Kia Soul EV, but obviously they will have to compete against the GM Bolt in just 1.5 years (likely a 36-40kWh battery).

The Tesla Model 3 will likely be offered as a 50kWh car, with a real 200 mile range at 55mph on perfect days.
Not that my crystal ball is any better than yours, but I'm guessing the base Model 3 will have a 60 kWh battery. Musk has said that he wants a minimum 200 mile "real world" range and 50 kWh won't achieve that. I wouldn't be surprised if the base Model 3 had a 70 kWh battery (with the S and X getting sizable increases over current options).
We need over 200 miles range in the real world, not 200 miles in ‘air-conditioning off, driving on flat road’ mode.
I don't expect the Gen2 LEAF to be competitive with the Model 3, if the latter car is released near the targeted price and specs.
I would agree with you on the Model 3 probably getting the 60 kWh battery. After all the car will be smaller and steel vs aluminum so the weight savings won't be as dramatic as the foot print might suggest. It will also probably loose some of the more aerodynamic features (ie pop out door handles, air suspension). My guess is that the cda may not be much better than the model S even with a smaller profile. This would mean it would need roughly the same size battery to deliver the same range.

Also the more existing parts they use the easier it is to meet deadlines.

Although the leaf2 may not be competitive with the model 3 from a spec / enthusiast point of view they will probably be cross shopped by a lot of people.
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ishiyakazuo
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information

Thu May 21, 2015 1:06 pm

minispeed wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:This appears to be Nissan's answer to the Kia Soul EV, but obviously they will have to compete against the GM Bolt in just 1.5 years (likely a 36-40kWh battery).

The Tesla Model 3 will likely be offered as a 50kWh car, with a real 200 mile range at 55mph on perfect days.
Not that my crystal ball is any better than yours, but I'm guessing the base Model 3 will have a 60 kWh battery. Musk has said that he wants a minimum 200 mile "real world" range and 50 kWh won't achieve that. I wouldn't be surprised if the base Model 3 had a 70 kWh battery (with the S and X getting sizable increases over current options).
We need over 200 miles range in the real world, not 200 miles in ‘air-conditioning off, driving on flat road’ mode.
I don't expect the Gen2 LEAF to be competitive with the Model 3, if the latter car is released near the targeted price and specs.
I would agree with you on the Model 3 probably getting the 60 kWh battery. After all the car will be smaller and steel vs aluminum so the weight savings won't be as dramatic as the foot print might suggest. It will also probably loose some of the more aerodynamic features (ie pop out door handles, air suspension). My guess is that the cda may not be much better than the model S even with a smaller profile. This would mean it would need roughly the same size battery to deliver the same range.

Also the more existing parts they use the easier it is to meet deadlines.

Although the leaf2 may not be competitive with the model 3 from a spec / enthusiast point of view they will probably be cross shopped by a lot of people.
The curb weight might be a heck of a lot lower than the Model S too... but who knows. Definitely if it exceeds 50kWh, that will be amazing if they can pull it off for LEAF money.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information

Thu May 21, 2015 1:28 pm

Remember when Tesla Model S was "300 mile" car for $49,900? Just not at the same time !!!

That's what Model 3 will be:

$35k - 40-50kWh battery (like RAV4 EV), range EPA 150, no Supercharger.

$55k - 55- 65kWh battery (like 208 -240 mile range Model S), AWD, Supercharger, EPA 200

$70k - P3-70D ++, bye bye BMW M3 !!!

BMW pricing:

$35k - base BMW 3 series

$40k - $50k - actual price paid with options

$62k - M3 without options

dhanson865
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information

Thu May 21, 2015 2:14 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:Remember when Tesla Model S was "300 mile" car for $49,900? Just not at the same time !!!

That's what Model 3 will be:

$35k - 40-50kWh battery (like RAV4 EV), range EPA 150, no Supercharger.

$55k - 55- 65kWh battery (like 208 -240 mile range Model S), AWD, Supercharger, EPA 200

$70k - P3-70D ++, bye bye BMW M3 !!!
I disagree. The base model will have supercharging but won't have Dual Motors or will have significantly less HP with very small dual motors.

Not sure about the battery capacity vs price either but I'm more sure about the supercharging on all cars going forward. I think that will be a given even on Model 3.
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evnow
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information

Thu May 21, 2015 3:19 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:Remember when Tesla Model S was "300 mile" car for $49,900? Just not at the same time !!!

That's what Model 3 will be:

$35k - 40-50kWh battery (like RAV4 EV), range EPA 150, no Supercharger.

$55k - 55- 65kWh battery (like 208 -240 mile range Model S), AWD, Supercharger, EPA 200

$70k - P3-70D ++, bye bye BMW M3 !!!
No way.

Tesla's UPS is supercharger. All the cars they make from now on will be supercharger enabled - and will have long enough range to make supercharger network useable.

My crystal ball says

$40k - 60kWh. This occupies the now vacated S 60 kWh place.
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evnow
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh ?!

Thu May 21, 2015 3:21 pm

bruddahmanmatt wrote:2016 LEAF trim levels will break down as follows:

S 24kWh
SV 30kWh
SL 30kWh
Very very interesting.

Kudos to Insideevs.com for predicting a longer range (I've to wonder whether they were guessing or heard something !).

Thankfully I just extended my lease - and will pick this up for a 2 year lease when it comes out.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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ILETRIC
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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh ?!

Thu May 21, 2015 4:04 pm

Just all of you stop smoking weird stuff! You will never be able to put that 30 kWh battery in your '11-'13 Leaf gliders.

As few MNL members have said all along, Nissan is not in business of selling batteries. They're in business of pushing metal.
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-------------> for Kia Soul EV+ <-------------

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Re: 2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh ?!

Thu May 21, 2015 4:11 pm

evnow wrote:
bruddahmanmatt wrote:2016 LEAF trim levels will break down as follows:

S 24kWh
SV 30kWh
SL 30kWh
Very very interesting.

Kudos to Insideevs.com for predicting a longer range (I've to wonder whether they were guessing or heard something !).

Thankfully I just extended my lease - and will pick this up for a 2 year lease when it comes out.
My lease is up end of September, so hopefully I can buy it by then. If I know it's coming out by then, but can't buy it yet, I'm going to have to make some tough decisions. haha

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