"Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

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Sometimes hammering a lead pack with current makes them last longer. Over charging or deep cycling them will kill them, Heat is a separate issue. Putting butter on battery terminals before mounting the cables will increase current by as much as 10%.
 
I really can't tell if the L2 thing is over hyped or what. Most people will be charging their cars in 2 hours overnight on L2 or in 8 hours on L1. This is based on Nissans own daily driving habits data. Its almost starting to sound like some sorta Y2K hysteria about L2 infrastructure panic. If L1 is bad then everyone really needs to know why.
 
Some people say that Chocolate is better than Vanilla. Fine. To keep it from just being an opinion, Nissan should explain why. Very simple. We love to beat obscure information to death so we would be all over big information.

I knew I shouldn't have had that Espresso so late... uuughh.
 
I'm starting to dislike the Nissan marketing approach and question their intentions related to battery packs. What do they have to hide if they have so much to brag about? But then, a couple moronic marketing and management IDIOTS at Aptera brought a great concept to the ground. When I say IDIOTS it's I'm using kind language. Once a few tech savvy people get a Leaf these questions or myths will be clear, I have a few I plan to dispel very quickly. The marketing people at Nissan do not have the tech knowledge to outsmart the web and the smart consumers, BS does not fly in the EV world and somehow they want us to believe that the perfect charge rate is EXACTLY 3.3 KW. Not more. not less.
 
cdub said:
Someone on the driving tour sais it wasn't as good for the batteries as L2
I don't think that is the reason. Note that while discussing "normal" (L2) charging they say:
NISSAN recommends using normal charging for usual charging of the vehicle. Use of quick charge should be minimized in order to help prolong Li-ion battery life.
If L1 isn't as good for the battery, why didn't they say, "Use of quick charge or trickle charge should be minimized ..."?

My own guess is that some marketing folk were worried that a potential customer might have the following dialog with a LEAF owner:

"Hey, nice looking car, but how do you fill the tank?"

"Oh, I just plug it in when I get home at night."

"You mean you just plug it in to an ordinary outlet?"

"Well, there is a fancy gadget you can buy that's supposed to charge it faster, but it's pretty expensive, so, yeah, I just plug in this special cord here that comes with the car."

"Interesting. How long does it take to charge that way?"

"Well if it's completely discharged, it can take more than twenty hours, but ..."

"TWENTY HOURS?? That's crazy! No way would I ever get a car like that."
 
planet4ever said:
cdub said:
Someone on the driving tour sais it wasn't as good for the batteries as L2
I don't think that is the reason. Note that while discussing "normal" (L2) charging they say:
NISSAN recommends using normal charging for usual charging of the vehicle. Use of quick charge should be minimized in order to help prolong Li-ion battery life.
If L1 isn't as good for the battery, why didn't they say, "Use of quick charge or trickle charge should be minimized ..."?

My own guess is that some marketing folk were worried that a potential customer might have the following dialog with a LEAF owner:

"Hey, nice looking car, but how do you fill the tank?"

"Oh, I just plug it in when I get home at night."

"You mean you just plug it in to an ordinary outlet?"

"Well, there is a fancy gadget you can buy that's supposed to charge it faster, but it's pretty expensive, so, yeah, I just plug in this special cord here that comes with the car."

"Interesting. How long does it take to charge that way?"

"Well if it's completely discharged, it can take more than twenty hours, but ..."

"TWENTY HOURS?? That's crazy! No way would I ever get a car like that."

True. True. Probably best if we all just swallow the L2 party line... instead of explaining the much simpler, cheaper reality. :roll:
 
so this is what Nissan recommends. does anyone have any scientific explanation for this?

my unscientific thoughts;

1) overcharging is an issue due to issues related to charging/temperature changes in the core, etc. the seemingly obvious way to more accurately monitor charge levels against temperature would be to normalize or equalize the temps in the pack. since we cant "stir occasionally". localized hot spots will happen causing a delay in reporting of pack condition to the BMS (battery monitoring system) computer. this explains why DC ONLY does 80% charging (we think). but the faster the charge, the greater the hot spots right?

2) in the long run, 220 being more efficient which lowers energy usage, Nissan in their neverending quest for "greeness" should recommend the best way, but their statement should be clarified as to why instead of implying that we are somehow "damaging" our Leaf by doing this. once again; there is always a better way. but what is exactly is the penalty for using 110 charging?

3) if slow charging somehow damages the batteries, then can doing a DC quick charge once a month or so replenish what 110 has lost?

well i doubt that just about as much as i doubt that 110 volt charging will some how reduce the long term pack capacity of the batteries
 
TRONZ said:
Probably best if we all just swallow the L2 party line... instead of explaining the much simpler, cheaper reality. :roll:
Could you expand on exactly what this "much simpler, cheaper reality" is? I find this charging issue a very complex question, depending very much on the nature of the battery pack (and what scheme might maximize its life/performance, which seems unclear at this point in time), as well as the individual situation of various owners (local utility tariffs/rates that might apply, whether they have a home solar system or not, their use of public/free charging stations, etc.) There seems to be quite a range of possibilities that may preclude a single "simple and cheap" reality for everyone. I know I'm still confused about the whole issue. Any clarity you could offer would be welcome.

TT
 
EVDRIVER said:
, BS does not fly in the EV world and somehow they want us to believe that the perfect charge rate is EXACTLY 3.3 KW. Not more. not less.
And I want to know why Nissan is pushing the AV evse with twice the 3.3 Kw capacity. Seems like a waste to me and Leaf is supposed to be not wasteful.
 
EVDRIVER said:
Sometimes hammering a lead pack with current makes them last longer. Over charging or deep cycling them will kill them, Heat is a separate issue. Putting butter on battery terminals before mounting the cables will increase current by as much as 10%.

And the corollary: Putting butter on Brussels Sprouts only makes them palatable to 10% of the population. :mrgreen:
 
With the way this is worded in the manual, I believe this is to just improve the customer experience. Nissan is trying to set the expectation that we should only use permanently installed Level 2 charging only and they seem to make a big deal of Level 1 charging taking "up to 21 hours."

Personally, I think the only reason why they are discouraging DC Quick Charging is that there is a risk of excessively heating the battery pack, causing premature failure.
 
cdub said:
Someone on the driving tour sais it wasn't as good for the batteries as L2

Someone at the driving tour said.....

That it the point in the message where every one of us can just move on to the next post. Tour folks were hired actors, and most of them forgot their lines and were just ad-libbing.
 
Perhaps the pilot signal on L2 charging does more than we think it does? Maybe the L2 EVSE and the on-board charger work hand-in-hand to baby the battery pack a little better than on-board charger does standing alone (L1)???

Just a hunch...based on nothing but educated guessing.
 
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