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garygid
Gold Member
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:36 pm

The L1 & L2 EVSEs do not "push" any amount of current in.
They simply advise the car that NN-amps (12, 16, etc.) is the Maximum that the car should attempt to "draw" (long term).

A particular EVSE might include a circuit to measure the out-going current, and open its relay if it thinks "too much" is being drawn. However, I think that is not a required EVSE function.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
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Pipemajor
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:09 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:56 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Sometimes hammering a lead pack with current makes them last longer. Over charging or deep cycling them will kill them, Heat is a separate issue. Putting butter on battery terminals before mounting the cables will increase current by as much as 10%.
Hammering a pack with current will never make it last longer. No need to deep cycle lithium batteries and butter on the terminals has nothing to do with charge current.
Planet Blue SL reserved 04/26/2010
RAQ 03/01/2012
Ordered 03/18/2012
Home Assessment 03/23/2012
Delivery - Dashboard showing "Month of June" ** User Canceled on 04/02/2012 **
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smkettner
Posts: 7501
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
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Location: Orange County, CA

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:11 pm

Hammering the pack may well work a bit with lead-acid but I am not sure about lithium.
Just saying try not to apply other battery habits to Leaf.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

Pipemajor
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:09 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:24 pm

Good primer on lithium-ion chemistry:
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/ ... _batteries
Planet Blue SL reserved 04/26/2010
RAQ 03/01/2012
Ordered 03/18/2012
Home Assessment 03/23/2012
Delivery - Dashboard showing "Month of June" ** User Canceled on 04/02/2012 **
Now holding out for the 2014 Leaf.

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:31 pm

DarkStar wrote:Assuming:

Level 1 = 120 volts @ 12 amps
Level 2 = 240 volts @ ~14 amps (Maximum of 208 volts @ 16 amps for a 3.3 KW charger)
Pack Capacity = 24 KWh, but takes 26.4 KWh of energy to completely charge (10% inefficiency)
24 KWh = Average of 100 miles
I agree with your assumptions, except possibly the Level 2 amps. For those who believe 100 miles on a full charge is too high, let me point out that we now know Nissan has always been figuring "empty" as when the Low Battery Warning light comes on, and that is probably more like 20 kWh down in the battery. The EPA says 100 miles is optimistic, and I'll agree, based on that definition of empty. But I think we'll find we can easily eke out 100 miles if we squeeze every electron possible out of the battery, and limp home in turtle mode. And we would indeed need roughly 26 1/2 kWh at the wall to recharge from that point.
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

PaulScott
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:44 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2012
Location: Santa Monica

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:40 pm

Speak for yourself. If you don't know how to drive efficiently, then yes, you might have to "eke" out 100 miles. I can get 120 miles out of my RAV, and I've got enough time in the LEAF to know 120 miles is easy to do.

Paul
Black SL/ETEC
2002 RAV4 EV
2007 Vectrix

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evnow
Moderator
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:45 pm

AndyH wrote:Trickle charge is designed to make up for the self discharge.
I think the manual says - don't do this. Atleast that is a possible explanation.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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AndyH
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:51 pm

Pipemajor wrote:Good primer on lithium-ion chemistry:
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/ ... _batteries
Good primer but 5-7 years out of date. ;)

No - don't hammer lithium. Don't think of lead - lead is dead.

Part of the problem we have in this brave new world of lithium EVs is that the DIYers and older EVers have to unlearn their mad 'keep lead alive' skillz. :D

AndyH
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Location: San Antonio

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:54 pm

planet4ever wrote: I agree with your assumptions, except possibly the Level 2 amps. For those who believe 100 miles on a full charge is too high, let me point out that we now know Nissan has always been figuring "empty" as when the Low Battery Warning light comes on, and that is probably more like 20 kWh down in the battery. The EPA says 100 miles is optimistic, and I'll agree, based on that definition of empty. But I think we'll find we can easily eke out 100 miles if we squeeze every electron possible out of the battery, and limp home in turtle mode. And we would indeed need roughly 26 1/2 kWh at the wall to recharge from that point.
No way. The 100 mile range is based on LA4 - it's old but still real-world. Even Perry's said that the hypermilers will be in the 130 mile area.

The EV endurance testing keeps the wheels turning until the car stops or can't hold a minimum speed - the testing doesn't pay attention to the lights on the dash...

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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:26 pm

PaulScott wrote:Speak for yourself. If you don't know how to drive efficiently, then yes, you might have to "eke" out 100 miles. I can get 120 miles out of my RAV, and I've got enough time in the LEAF to know 120 miles is easy to do.
Sorry, my wording may not have been the best. "eke" is indeed a loaded term. What I said was easily eke. What I was thinking was that even gudy could get 100 miles if he pushed it to the limit.

And, Andy, I agree with you. The EPA test will not automatically stop when you go into turtle mode.
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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