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Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:20 am
by DaveEV
Some dealers have an unfortunate habit of trying to pin blame on defects in vehicles to the way that the owner is using the vehicle.

There is be no way that charging the LEAF only using 120V - if there is - there's a design defect that needs to be resolved as it would simply imply that even casual use of 120V would eventually cause problems.

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:50 am
by charlie1300
tzzhc4 wrote:So I went to the dealer today to get my car and the dealer told me again that "you are not supposed to be using the charger that came with the car as your primary charging you are supposed to have a thing on your wall". I told them this wasn't what I was told by the dealer I purchased the car from and Nissan doesn't specifically say you can't use L1 charging. The dealer then reiterated their position on how I should have a wall charger and how plug charging causes problems. The service manager then said Nissan is to flying a technician out to look at my car sometime so could I bring it back next week, please.

Does anyone have any information from Nissan saying L1 charging all the time is allowed? I am just worried they are going to point at the manual and say see it says you aren't supposed to use it as your primary means.
It's your car, but if it was me, I'd seriously consider taking it to the dealer you bought it from for any further repair work. What this dealer is telling you is just not true, and if they knew what they were doing, they would know it wasn't true. I would question their competence to work on the car.

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:00 pm
by GaslessInSeattle
I've tried to drill into this with Nissan when one of their reps made the follow up call after purchase to see how I was liking the car. The woman on the phone took careful notes of the nuances of my questions and said she would find someone who really knew the answers. A few days later she called back and said there is nothing wrong with charging on L1, as in no known issues with it and that the primary reason Nissan is taking the stance that it is to be avoided is that it's just not practical for most people. I can certainly see that the primary PR issue with EV's is range and that Nissan would want to avoid popularizing the 21 hour charger... some, probably many people would hear that and feel that their worst fears were confirmed and not give it another consideration. The first hurdle, IMHO, in getting EV's into the mainstream is overcoming skepticism about charging and the batteries.

I believe it's a PR thing, and after trying to rely on L1 initially, and later getting L2, I can completely understand why they have taken this stance. While L1 charging is doable, planning for that occasional longish trip gets really tedious, especially if trying to go with 80% charging. I was starting to plan multiple opportunity charges ahead, adding up total number of hours charging in a 24 hour period. That's going to be a no-go for most of the public. All they need is to have someone's story about how proud they are of their complex charging regime get publicized and it will hurt public impression even more.

When my L2 finally got installed, I quickly found a convenient routine that covered the vast majority of my needs without having to think about it much. I set the timer to 80% and charge whenever possible, making it so that I almost always have an 80% charge and I'm a short top off to 100% on the rare occasion that I need it. I believe that this is the way the car and charging system is intended to be used because it is a way that will meeting the needs of the masses.

If you need to rely solely on L1, just know it can be tricky depending on how many miles you drive and your charging opportunities.
g


cwerdna wrote:
mogur wrote:Have them show you anywhere where it says that in writing from Nissan. They won't be able to because it is not true. The only negative thing that Nissan has to say about L1 charging at all is that it is slower and less efficient than L2. It does not cause any "problems" of any kind.

I think it is simply a poor Japanese translation and that "emergency" refers to the time that it takes to charge on 120, which may be too long for some and their usage needs...
tzzhc4 wrote:Was there ever a definite conclusion to this thread? Nissan is scolding me for using L1 only and saying it is causing "problems". I retorted and asked why and have gotten no response other than "L1 is for emergency purposes only" so I would like something to come back at them with.
I also wonder. I'm a prospective buyer and don't plan on getting a home EVSE installed (long story). L1 charging will suffice for me (yes, I know it's very slow). If I end up buying, I wonder if I'll also get a "scolding". Hope Nissan's willing to elaborate on the "problems".

FWIW, in Japan, their power is only 100 volts out of the wall (http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/arrange/essen ... icity.html). Not sure of the amperage of typical 100 volt outlets household outlets there...

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:30 am
by Leafpeeper
I bought a new 2013 Leaf. Being retired and without a daily commute, I decided to try starting out with the trickle charger that came with the car. I charge to 80% and almost always stop before I get down to 20%. It would easily charge up from 20 to 80% overnight while I slept. Beautiful! No charger installation.

Then my wife bought a new 2018 Bolt. That has about triple the range of my Leaf. Now I saw a challenge! Could we still make it using ONE Level 1 charger? Yes! No problem. We try to always keep hers at least half charged so we are not faced with a super long charge. For many days, neither of us charge our cars.

And my Leaf battery? It lost one "bar" being mismanaged while on the dealer's lot before I even bought it. Seven years later it still has the remaining 11 bars.

This makes me pretty confident that Nissan was discouraging use of the "trickle" charger to diminish public concern about charging EVs, not for any technical issues.

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:17 am
by SalemCat
Leafpeeper wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:30 am
I bought a new 2013 Leaf. Being retired and without a daily commute, I decided to try starting out with the trickle charger that came with the car. I charge to 80% and almost always stop before I get down to 20%. It would easily charge up from 20 to 80% overnight while I slept. Beautiful! No charger installation.

Then my wife bought a new 2018 Bolt. That has about triple the range of my Leaf. Now I saw a challenge! Could we still make it using ONE Level 1 charger? Yes! No problem. We try to always keep hers at least half charged so we are not faced with a super long charge. For many days, neither of us charge our cars.

And my Leaf battery? It lost one "bar" being mismanaged while on the dealer's lot before I even bought it. Seven years later it still has the remaining 11 bars.

This makes me pretty confident that Nissan was discouraging use of the "trickle" charger to diminish public concern about charging EVs, not for any technical issues.
You have described my situation perfectly.

I have just purchased a 2018 SV w 13K miles, with 7 months Warranty remaining.

$16K, with an MSRP of $37K just 2-3 years ago. I'm pleased.

My local Electrican will install a 220V Level 2 "Juice" ? for less than $500, but I have crap that I need to clear from in front of the Main Box, in my unheated garage, and I'm in no mood to do that until 6 weeks from now, in March.

So until then it will be 120V Trickle all the way.

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:17 pm
by LeftieBiker
I've been using L-1 at home since 2013. We now have two Leafs, one a Plus.

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:47 pm
by salyavin
I too see no problem charging l1 forever as long as that gives you enough power when you need it. Most people are home for at least 12 hours a day. You do lose some power to heat in conversion but the money lost for wasted power vs having a NEMA 14-50 outlet put in is considerably less. I personally have a 50AMP ciruit in my garage and a l2 charger mounted there which lets me charge faster. When at various "EV club" or drive electric events I specifically suggest people not to install a charger at first and just trickle charge until they feel it is not enough. Most people do end up installing one as I myself did but I don't want a new convert to overspend when they don't need to. I can have a hard time accepting that trickle charge harms the car in any way. DCFC too much especially when hot sure but not trickle.

Regarding outlets in Japan
https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Japan1.html

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:15 pm
by goldbrick
I also think there is no reason to not use L1, except for it can make EV ownership seem more troublesome. There are slight efficiency loses and the charger and EVSE will accumulate more hours of use but that's a nit in the grand scheme of things.

That said, my dad put in L2 after living with L1 fora few months. His car is an 2013 11 bar Leaf and he normally charges it to 80%. Now he can go to town, plug it in and it's ready to go again in a few hours. Before that it would take most of the day to recharge. He's retired so doesn't have a daily commute but shares the car with my mom and they can both easily do their separate errands in it now without much forethought. So like with many things EV related, it all depends on individual needs and one size doesn't fit all.

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:08 pm
by coleafrado2
SalemCat wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:17 am
You have described my situation perfectly.

I have just purchased a 2018 SV w 13K miles, with 7 months Warranty remaining.

$16K, with an MSRP of $37K just 2-3 years ago. I'm pleased.
I hate to say this, but for $16k OTD you can get an essentially mint Bolt with <50k miles, 50% more range than the Leaf1.5, and an actual battery thermal management system. Also, an 8-year 100k mile battery warranty. If you can return the Leaf, do it ASAP!

Re: "Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:26 am
by WetEV
coleafrado2 wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:08 pm
SalemCat wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:17 am
You have described my situation perfectly.

I have just purchased a 2018 SV w 13K miles, with 7 months Warranty remaining.

$16K, with an MSRP of $37K just 2-3 years ago. I'm pleased.
I hate to say this, but for $16k OTD you can get an essentially mint Bolt with <50k miles, 50% more range than the Leaf1.5, and an actual battery thermal management system. Also, an 8-year 100k mile battery warranty. If you can return the Leaf, do it ASAP!
And Bolt seats that many can not sit in for long, and with a poorly designed battery management system including the risk of fires.

Sure, the Bolt might be a better choice for some. Longer trips would be less of a hassle, assuming your arse doesn't mind the poor seating. But for a daily driver at very modest cost, the LEAF is hard to beat.