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Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:07 pm
by SageBrush
DaveinOlyWA wrote: I guess you "might" get some idiot to believe that half assed TCO
ROFL !

I'm game.
What in my TCO do you find objectionable (other than it being a lot less than you pay) ?
Specifics please.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:37 pm
by WetEV
SageBrush wrote:What in my TCO do you find objectionable (other than it being a lot less than you pay) ?
Specifics please.
My car charges while I sleep. Factor that in.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:33 pm
by IssacZachary
If you play the buying game right you can get super deals. Although I've never heard of making a good winning off a new car, I did buy a 1993 Mazda 323 for $250, did about $600 of work to it and drove it like that for about five years, with the exception of changing the oil twice a year (did it myself) and a set of tires I bought new for $30 a piece plus $50 for the tire change. I also got 40 to 45mpg in the thing! I even took that car clear to Puerto Vallarta and back. And then I ended up selling it for $1,000. And that was with only liability insurance.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:35 pm
by cmwade77
IssacZachary wrote:If you play the buying game right you can get super deals. Although I've never heard of making a good winning off a new car, I did buy a 1993 Mazda 323 for $250, did about $600 of work to it and drove it like that for about five years, with the exception of changing the oil twice a year (did it myself) and a set of tires I bought new for $30 a piece plus $50 for the tire change. I also got 40 to 45mpg in the thing! I even took that car clear to Puerto Vallarta and back. And then I ended up selling it for $1,000. And that was with only liability insurance.
Ok, consider this, you got up to 45 mpg, which means with gas running about $3.30 a gallon at the moment here, to go 90 miles you would have spent $6.60. Even the most expensive chargers (not counting Blink, which is ridiculously high) are $3.10 for me to go 90 miles. So, basically less than half the cost. Now, that doesn't factor in the $600 of work you did, the cost of the oil changes (don't forget to include the cost of your time), etc. It also doesn't factor in that the majority of my charges are completely free of charge, meaning that a more realistic mileage is $3.10 to go near 1,000 miles.

This is why I like the cost of an EV over a gas powered vehicle.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:32 pm
by IssacZachary
cmwade77 wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:If you play the buying game right you can get super deals. Although I've never heard of making a good winning off a new car, I did buy a 1993 Mazda 323 for $250, did about $600 of work to it and drove it like that for about five years, with the exception of changing the oil twice a year (did it myself) and a set of tires I bought new for $30 a piece plus $50 for the tire change. I also got 40 to 45mpg in the thing! I even took that car clear to Puerto Vallarta and back. And then I ended up selling it for $1,000. And that was with only liability insurance.
Ok, consider this, you got up to 45 mpg, which means with gas running about $3.30 a gallon at the moment here, to go 90 miles you would have spent $6.60. Even the most expensive chargers (not counting Blink, which is ridiculously high) are $3.10 for me to go 90 miles. So, basically less than half the cost. Now, that doesn't factor in the $600 of work you did, the cost of the oil changes (don't forget to include the cost of your time), etc. It also doesn't factor in that the majority of my charges are completely free of charge, meaning that a more realistic mileage is $3.10 to go near 1,000 miles.

This is why I like the cost of an EV over a gas powered vehicle.
Me too. I love my Leaf. Why do you think I went from a 45mpg Gasoline to a 60mpg diesel to a 115mpg-e electric?

But on the other hand my used Leaf cost $9,000 after the Colorado tax rebate. Add interests and taxes and fees and it's over $10,000. It's all paid for, but trying to sell it I'm getting offers of around $4,000 to $5,000. So in the year I've owned it, if I sell it at that price I will have spent an average of well over $500 per month on the car.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:06 pm
by SageBrush
WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:What in my TCO do you find objectionable (other than it being a lot less than you pay) ?
Specifics please.
My car charges while I sleep. Factor that in.
You fall asleep waiting for the car to charge.

FTFY

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:41 pm
by GRA
SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:What in my TCO do you find objectionable (other than it being a lot less than you pay) ?
Specifics please.
My car charges while I sleep. Factor that in.
You fall asleep waiting for the car to charge.

FTFY
Depending on the individual's situation, either could be correct ;) For anyone who can't charge at home or work, the latter is most likely.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:54 am
by cwerdna
cmwade77 wrote:Ok, consider this, you got up to 45 mpg, which means with gas running about $3.30 a gallon at the moment here, to go 90 miles you would have spent $6.60. Even the most expensive chargers (not counting Blink, which is ridiculously high) are $3.10 for me to go 90 miles. So, basically less than half the cost.
I only wish DC FCing were that cheap in my area. That's why I didn't feel like paying an extra $1K to $1.5K for a '13 Leaf w/CHAdeMO when I was in the market for a used one to replace my the one I was leasing. Had already lived with a Leaf w/CHAdeMO for 2 years.

For DC FCing, the only 2 major providers in my area are Blink, which charges 59 cents/kWh for members. If I averaged 4 miles/kWh, that'd be 14.75 cents/mile.

If I only achieve 40 mpg in my Prius and gas is $4/gal, that's 10 cents/mile.

The other is EVgo. If I don't want to pay $20/mo fee w/12-month contract, DC FCing is $4.95 to START + 20 cents/minute (https://www.evgo.com/charging-plans/). So, a 30 minute DC FC would cost $10.95. $10.95 at 40 mpg and $4/gal is enough to propel my Prius 109.5 miles. It certainly won't add 109.5 miles of range to a 24 kWh Leaf, unless driven VERY slowly.

$1K buys 250 gallons of gas at $4/gal. At 40 mpg, that's enough for 10K miles of driving.

In my over 4.5 years of Leaf driving, I've paid $0 for any public or workplace charging and $0 charging subscription fees. Fortunately w/my current Leaf, most of my charging is for free at work, some at free public L2 charging and a tiny bit at home.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:04 am
by IssacZachary
GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote: My car charges while I sleep. Factor that in.
You fall asleep waiting for the car to charge.

FTFY
Depending on the individual's situation, either could be correct ;) For anyone who can't charge at home or work, the latter is most likely.
I once took my Leaf on a 700 mile trip. Basically we went to the first L2 station (there are no DC Fast charging stations). It was free (most of my charging was free on that trip). During that time we ate lunch. Then we went to a campground and used L1 all night while we camped. Then the next day to a L2 for breakfast. Then off to our first destination. Then the reverse on the way back home. And that was basically how we did it. That and creeping along the side of the road at 30mph a couple times so I could make it up a 13,000ft pass. We even went through the highest town in Colorado on that trip and crossed the continental divide several times.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:18 pm
by GRA
IssacZachary wrote:
GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote: You fall asleep waiting for the car to charge.

FTFY
Depending on the individual's situation, either could be correct ;) For anyone who can't charge at home or work, the latter is most likely.
I once took my Leaf on a 700 mile trip. Basically we went to the first L2 station (there are no DC Fast charging stations). It was free (most of my charging was free on that trip). During that time we ate lunch. Then we went to a campground and used L1 all night while we camped. Then the next day to a L2 for breakfast. Then off to our first destination. Then the reverse on the way back home. And that was basically how we did it. That and creeping along the side of the road at 30mph a couple times so I could make it up a 13,000ft pass. We even went through the highest town in Colorado on that trip and crossed the continental divide several times.
A perfect demonstration of how impractical a short range BEV is for road trips without QCs, or the time suck involved even with them beyond a single charging stop. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be, if you've got a better option. Way back in the early days on this forum there were lots of people making such adventures, but most quickly grew tired of the limitations, which is why most of those who've stayed with PEVs have moved on to much longer-ranged BEVs, PHEVs, or even back to an ICE.

BTW, when you say the highest town in Colorado, are you referring to Alma, Winter Park or Leadville? I've driven Trail Ridge Road through Rocky Mtn. NP (max. elev. 12,145') a couple of times, I-70 through the tunnel once and also across the divide on the dirt Hagerman Pass Rd. (11,979') that runs between Meredith and Leadville (we were installing a solar lighting system on the 10th Mtn. Division Betty Bear ski hut, and stayed in the Skinner hut).