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Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:04 am
by DaveinOlyWA
Actually this is an issue that has been "growing" significantly. I know at least 3 and possibly 4 families that love their LEAFs but have added at least one family member making the size of the vehicle untenable.

In two cases, an X is within their financial reach but neither feels its a good long term expense. So a medium SUV like vehicle in the $40's seems to be the next hot item.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm
by IssacZachary
GRA wrote:Well, there's the Pacifica (Plug-in) Hybrid, at 33 miles AER it will do most of your commute. Course, it is a van, so you might feel the need to always wear a hoodie, ball cap and shades to avoid being recognized while driving it :lol: Base priced at $40k, but that's still more than $8k less than an i3Rex :o :shock: :?
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Actually this is an issue that has been "growing" significantly. I know at least 3 and possibly 4 families that love their LEAFs but have added at least one family member making the size of the vehicle untenable.

In two cases, an X is within their financial reach but neither feels its a good long term expense. So a medium SUV like vehicle in the $40's seems to be the next hot item.
Ya, I didn't get a Prime simply because it didn't have 5 seats.

I would prefer a Pacifica to an X. And I hope Tesla comes out with an electric minivan some day. To bad the Nissan electric minivan isn't available in the US that I know of.

To me, the SUV craze is just a fad that makes no sense. I fail to see how they're better. People seem to use anything as an excuse as to why they should buy one. Some say they just look better. I don't see how they do. Some say they are more comfortable. I've been in plenty of sedans and minivans that are plenty comfortable. Some say they are safer. Well, take a look at the statistics and come back and explain to me why I'm 5 times more likely to die in an accident in a 4WD Suburban than a Toyota Corolla.

My wife would prefer a minivan too. But right now I'm driving to far to make paying for fuel for a minivan worth it. So a sedan seemed to be the best middle ground. If I could, I'd get a Model S with rear kiddy seats. But even used Model S's are just a bit too far out of my price range.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:25 pm
by LeftieBiker
The Pacifica PHEV has a terrible track record so far. Recalls for drive system failures, and they stopped making them many months early last year because of issues with the batteries. Think of them as having the reliability of a Sixties Fiat, with the build quality of a Plymouth Volare...

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:30 am
by IssacZachary
LeftieBiker wrote:The Pacifica PHEV has a terrible track record so far. Recalls for drive system failures, and they stopped making them many months early last year because of issues with the batteries. Think of them as having the reliability of a Sixties Fiat, with the build quality of a Plymouth Volare...
Thanks! I never really checked into them since I never saw the feasibility of owning one for what I do. Getting only 10% to 20% electric range out of a plugin hybrid just doesn't sound like it's worth it to me, especially for a $40,000 vehicle.

But as far as which type of car generally fits the purpose needed, I like how this article puts it: What's the Right New Vehicle for Me?

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:43 am
by LeftieBiker
Aside from incorrectly claiming that AWD doesn't ever help with turning in slippery conditions, that's a good piece.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:10 am
by SageBrush
IssacZachary wrote: To me, the SUV craze is just a fad that makes no sense.
It is simple: An ever fatter populace with bad backs are so common that they set the bar for car and driver height.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:49 am
by WetEV
LeftieBiker wrote:Aside from incorrectly claiming that AWD doesn't ever help with turning in slippery conditions, that's a good piece.
All wheel drive helps you to move. Almost all cars have four wheel brakes, and two wheel steering.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/mag ... /index.htm

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:44 pm
by IssacZachary
LeftieBiker wrote:Aside from incorrectly claiming that AWD doesn't ever help with turning in slippery conditions, that's a good piece.
With modern traction control and antilock braking, AWD hardly does anything to improve cornering. In fact I've driven vehicles that the AWD/4WD versions cornered worse than the 2WD versions.

If you want good traction in snow and ice, the right tires do a whole lot better job than AWD.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:51 pm
by LeftieBiker
IssacZachary wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Aside from incorrectly claiming that AWD doesn't ever help with turning in slippery conditions, that's a good piece.
With modern traction control and antilock braking, AWD hardly does anything to improve cornering. In fact I've driven vehicles that the AWD/4WD versions cornered worse than the 2WD versions.

If you want good traction in snow and ice, the right tires do a whole lot better job than AWD.
I never wrote that AWD is equal to or better than snow tires. The improved cornering I'm talking about is when a RWD vehicle has an AWD option. Care to argue with that? Sheesh.

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:14 pm
by IssacZachary
LeftieBiker wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Aside from incorrectly claiming that AWD doesn't ever help with turning in slippery conditions, that's a good piece.
With modern traction control and antilock braking, AWD hardly does anything to improve cornering. In fact I've driven vehicles that the AWD/4WD versions cornered worse than the 2WD versions.

If you want good traction in snow and ice, the right tires do a whole lot better job than AWD.
I never wrote that AWD is equal to or better than snow tires. The improved cornering I'm talking about is when a RWD vehicle has an AWD option. Care to argue with that? Sheesh.
And I never said you were wrong in every occasion. Agreed, AWD at times can improve traction during cornering. But only if we're talking about something like an older pickup truck that has a terrible weight ratio between the front and rear wheels.

Generally speaking, RWD is not desireable to the novice driver in the snow because when the rear wheels will start to slide first, leading to the natural reaction of the novice driver of taking his foot of the accelerator pedal, then all the weight shifts forward off the wheels that are sliding, and the next thing you know he's pointed backwards off the road in a ditch.

But I would prefer a RWD vehicle with good weight proportioning and precise pedal control because to me some oversteer is desirable. Ever wonder why race cars are always set up to oversteer? Oversteer means the front wheels lose traction last, which is important to controlling the vehicle to a professional driver because those are the wheels you steer with. As long as you don't lose it so bad that the rear swings out past the radius you can turn with the front wheels you can control the vehicle around a corner by giving it a slight bit of acceleration or simply maintaining close to zero torque at the rear wheels and pointing the front wheels where you need to go.

But for a novice driver the FWD and AWD cars with more weight in the front are better. Those cars understeer, that is, lose traction on the front wheels first. The natural reaction is to let off the accelerator which may put enough weight over the front wheels to correct the understeer. Under many circumstances the car will still be uncontrollable because your steering wheels don't have traction. But at least you slide straight into whatever you're going to slide into. Hopefully it's a snowbank and not an 18 wheeler.

But regardless. Anyone thinking of buying an AWD for driving in the snow, unless they need to tow a trailer or plow snow, would do better buying a cheaper more fuel efficient 2WD car and putting the extra money towards a set of snow tires.