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jhm614
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:48 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000493
Location: Arlington, TX

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:05 am

drees wrote:I finally prevailed in convincing Nissan to provide out-of-warranty assistance to replace my battery pack!
:D :D :D :D :D
That is the best news I have heard this month!! Congrats, Drees!! (Also, thanks for all the work you put in here! You deserved a new pack just for that!
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14100
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:24 am

Durandal wrote: I suspect they decided to unofficially extend the warranty on the older ones to match the newer ones on the pro-rated basis for customer retention. That, and the fact that the battery has an 8 year warranty to not go 100% out on you,
the wording is as clear as you are going to get and you will find the wording across all manufacturers to be pretty much the same. the 8 years you refer to has nothing to do with capacity, only workmanship. Mentioning this only brings out confusion especially since 30 kwh packs have the 8 year "degradation" warranty.

we all know cars come with SEVERAL warranty periods covering all kinds of crap. lets not muddy the waters further.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14100
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:28 am

drees wrote:I finally prevailed in convincing Nissan to provide out-of-warranty assistance to replace my battery pack!

A new lizard pack is in the car now and the car feels almost new again. Drove almost 70 miles from 80% to almost VLBW to test it out (though I think the 80% charge was actually a bit more than 80% as the cell voltages seemed a bit high at 4.04-4.05 V for 80%) - that was at a mediocre 4.2 mi/kWh.

Battery took in 23.74 kWh from the wall according to Blink charging back up to 100%, so it will should take in about 25 kWh from the wall from turtle to 100% which is what you'd expect from a new 24 kWh battery. Regenerative braking is back to normal and efficiency appears to be up a decent amount thanks to the improved regenerative braking along with less voltage droop under load.

History:

Apr 2010 - Reserved
Jun 2011 - Delivered
Sep 2013 - 12th bar gone 22k mi
Nov 2014 - 11th bar gone 33k mi
Oct 2015 - 10th bar gone 43k mi
Aug 2016 - 9th bar gone 53k mi - out of warranty assistance denied
May 2017 - 8th bar gone 61k mi - re-started quest to get out of warranty assistance
Aug 2017 - out of warranty assistance granted!

Contrary to what we were originally led to believe, there does not appear to be any "glide path" with regards to rate of capacity loss. If anything it seemed to accelerate. Also, even here in San Diego's mild climate the rate of capacity loss is about double what Nissan said to expect.
This is great news! For "years" (it seems...) I have wondered why you were the only one who was getting stonewalled. FYI; your replacement battery promises to be much better than your OEM!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4734
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:08 am

drees wrote:I finally prevailed in convincing Nissan to provide out-of-warranty assistance to replace my battery pack!
Good for you!
Are you under NDA, or can you provide some details what it took to change Nissan's mind ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14100
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:34 am

SageBrush wrote:
drees wrote:I finally prevailed in convincing Nissan to provide out-of-warranty assistance to replace my battery pack!
Good for you!
Are you under NDA, or can you provide some details what it took to change Nissan's mind ?
not a change of mind. only a change in reality.

16 months ago, I predicted pack prices would drop from $6500 to $3500. I was "wrong" since from a marketing standpoint, it was better to hand out huge discounts instead of cutting the price.

This is no different than $33,000 MSRP LEAFs which we ALL know don't sell for that price. It simply leaves a better impression on the customer to think they "got over" on a great deal.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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DaveEV
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:34 am

SageBrush wrote:Are you under NDA, or can you provide some details what it took to change Nissan's mind ?
No NDA. After being denied the first time last August, I asked what other avenues I had. I asked about BBB arbitration since I heard about that, in addition i asked about re-opening after losing another bar and she suggested that I do that.

I had started the BBB process online, but never completed the paperwork and BBB closed my case. To my surprise I still received a letter from Nissan re-confirming that no assistance would be provided.

So I waited until the 5th bar dropped, because to be honest the car still did 90% of what I needed, but the lack of range was really starting cause us to drive the Prius more and was also leading to more public charging, though not enough to justify the EVgo subscription. With the degraded battery EVgo starts getting very expensive even on the Nissan Preferred plan. I charged 30 minutes only putting in 6 kWh once costing $7.50 just so I could make it home.

After losing the 5th bar I started the process again. I was told to bring the car in for another battery check, but then I got a call back saying nope, you're stuck, all decisions are final. WTF! I paid for the battery check again (paid for the previous one in August, despite it being 2 months since my annual) and called back pleading my case.

Denied again. I asked what could be done to escalate, he said nothing. Asked again and got it escalated to arbitration team, but no call back. Called back a couple weeks later, got to speak with a supervisor who was willing to escalate to the executive offices.

I got a call back from the executive office a couple days later, but missed the call and left a message, but my contact went on vacation. Called back again after two more weeks. Crickets.

Finally called the EV hotline again again and they were able to contact the executive office again for me and reopen dialogue. Got a call back few days later from the executive office granting me less than 90% assistance. I agreed and one week later I had a new pack in my LEAF!

I received regular calls from my service advisor at the dealership keeping me updated, and two follow up calls from the executive office making sure everything was ok. They provided an almost new Altima rental for basically free. That part was great. But the agony of debating what to do with a car that was quickly losing utility was very frustrating. And I'm still not happy about having to replace the pack in the first place at only 60k miles as that defeats a lot of the purpose of buying an EV for environmental reasons.

Tips I gathered along the way which may help your case:
1. Be pleasant and professional, but persistent.
2. Using the dealership for recommended service.
3. Being original owner and owning other Nissans.
4. How far out of warranty you are. The closer the better.

In the end though, it appears that they have some magic 8 ball making these decisions.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:09 am

drees wrote: ...I'm still not happy about having to replace the pack in the first place at only 60k miles as that defeats a lot of the purpose of buying an EV for environmental reasons...
Assuming your pack has gone on to a long and successful second life in a stationary application, I think you have little cause to be unhappy .
drees wrote: ...I waited until the 5th bar dropped, because to be honest the car still did 90% of what I needed...
That will not be the case, for me.

~99% of my daily trips are over 50 miles, and ~95% starting with a ~1500 ft descent, meaning charging to 100% is just a waste of kWh.

Still no DC's up here in the ~top third of CA yet, nor even convenient and dependable public L2 sites.

I also live where winter range reduction is quite significant.

By this Winter, I expect my pack to be down ~20% from delivery, ~22.5% from "24 kWh" spec, and ~36% as indicated by my LBC.

Meaning, a simple trip to the grocery store will be a real PIA, on any very cold or stormy day.

So, I plan on following-up my previous complaint with Nissan (RE my sub-"24 kWh" pack on delivery) pretty soon.
="edatoakrun

...Six years and 52k miles passed a few weeks ago. (5/15/17)

Very pleased overall, with my LEAF's performance....

Knowing the approximate nominal kWh available to LBW and VLB from my initial charge of "80%" or "100%", and watching the Nav screen m/kWh while I drive, I know both my nominal kWh used, and what are the approximate N kWh remaining wherever I drive, and can avoid all anxiety caused by the often "pessimistic" estimates from the LBC, of kWh remaining.

I also have a pretty good idea of what my LEAF's total and available battery capacity loss over time has been.

At six years and 52 k miles, my best estimates are:

My LEAF's pack had slightly under 19 kWh total capacity (as per AVTA test standards) and about 17 kWh available, when warm, at ~80 F.

That's about a 21% reduction from the 24 kWh Nissan specified, and ~18.5% lower than the average capacity Nissan actually delivered in 2012, according to AVTA testing of multiple LEAF packs.

My LEAF's range loss has been considerably lower than capacity loss since delivery.

At the relatively slow speeds (mostly mountain roads) I drive my own LEAF's efficiency gain reflects the high driving ranges relative to capacity shown in the AVTA 2012 LEAF 45 mph constant-speed tests, for the LEAFs with the less abused L2-charged packs.

I expect my LEAF's range loss per "100%" charge since delivery probably averaged close to 15% over the last year, higher in Winter and lower in Summer.

The ~32.5% Loss of capacity my LEAF's "pessimistic" LBC showed at six years and 52 k is really only of concern to me in how Nissan will consider this factor when I request (or demand) a replacement battery pack for my LEAF, which I'll probably be doing before Winter.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=40
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 4734
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:08 am

drees wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Are you under NDA, or can you provide some details what it took to change Nissan's mind ?
No NDA. After being denied the first time last August, I asked what other avenues I had. I asked about BBB arbitration since I heard about that, in addition i asked about re-opening after losing another bar and she suggested that I do that.

I had started the BBB process online, but never completed the paperwork and BBB closed my case. To my surprise I still received a letter from Nissan re-confirming that no assistance would be provided.

So I waited until the 5th bar dropped...
Holly molly. I would have given up a long time ago and I call myself persistent.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Reddy
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:40 pm

jhm614 wrote:
drees wrote:I finally prevailed in convincing Nissan to provide out-of-warranty assistance to replace my battery pack!
:D :D :D :D :D
That is the best news I have heard this month!! Congrats, Drees!! (Also, thanks for all the work you put in here! You deserved a new pack just for that!
+++++++++++++1
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Valdemar
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:42 pm

I know there has been a lot of criticism of Nissan policies but I'm almost ready to say that overall Nissan took care of the original owners, some of us had to work more than others but with some effort many were able to get a new pack for free or at a discount. Even with the BBB process I felt Nissan didn't play hardball. Oh well, I'm sure there are other opinions as well, but I think the car will work out quite well for the most of us who committed to it long-term.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

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