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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:45 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
Valdemar wrote:I know there has been a lot of criticism of Nissan policies but I'm almost ready to say that overall Nissan took care of the original owners, some of us had to work more than others but with some effort many were able to get a new pack for free or at a discount. Even with the BBB process I felt Nissan didn't play hardball. Oh well, I'm sure there are other opinions as well, but I think the car will work out quite well for the most of us who committed to it long-term.
ya ya... I am sure the fact that the pack cost is probably ¼to ½ as much as before also played a part...

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:24 am
by Bufordleaf
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote: 16 months ago, I predicted pack prices would drop from $6500 to $3500. I was "wrong" since from a marketing standpoint, it was better to hand out huge discounts instead of cutting the price.

This is no different than $33,000 MSRP LEAFs which we ALL know don't sell for that price. It simply leaves a better impression on the customer to think they "got over" on a great deal.
This is a great point, hadn't thought of it that way. I hope you are right and that eventually Nissan decides to simply lower the MSRP on replacement packs. My 2015 is doing well at ~ 8% capacity loss at 29k miles, so I expect to lose the first bar at ~ 40k miles and thus the second by 60k miles. At that point (after 2nd bar loss) I would replace the pack if the cost were reasonable, especially if Nissan makes the 30 kWh pack available for MY2015 Leafs.

And before someone says "Nissan won't do that b/c they want you to buy a new Nissan," I won't buy another Nissan if they do me this way. I didn't buy this car to throw it away after 60k miles, so if Nissan doesn't figure out a way to replace those degraded packs at a very reasonable cost I will look to another manufacturer for my next EV.

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:44 am
by SageBrush
So far as I know, 24 kWh packs are not being built anymore. So the replacement pack people are imagining they are going to buy in a few years will have sat in a warehouse for years prior to purchase, and come with a 1 year warranty. The same will happen with the 30 kWh packs a few years later.

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:11 am
by DaveinOlyWA
SageBrush wrote:So far as I know, 24 kWh packs are not being built anymore. So the replacement pack people are imagining they are going to buy in a few years will have sat in a warehouse for years prior to purchase, and come with a 1 year warranty. The same will happen with the 30 kWh packs a few years later.
Since you admittedly don't know. I think you should hold your comments.

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:25 am
by DaveinOlyWA
Bufordleaf wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote: 16 months ago, I predicted pack prices would drop from $6500 to $3500. I was "wrong" since from a marketing standpoint, it was better to hand out huge discounts instead of cutting the price.

This is no different than $33,000 MSRP LEAFs which we ALL know don't sell for that price. It simply leaves a better impression on the customer to think they "got over" on a great deal.
This is a great point, hadn't thought of it that way. I hope you are right and that eventually Nissan decides to simply lower the MSRP on replacement packs. My 2015 is doing well at ~ 8% capacity loss at 29k miles, so I expect to lose the first bar at ~ 40k miles and thus the second by 60k miles. At that point (after 2nd bar loss) I would replace the pack if the cost were reasonable, especially if Nissan makes the 30 kWh pack available for MY2015 Leafs.

And before someone says "Nissan won't do that b/c they want you to buy a new Nissan," I won't buy another Nissan if they do me this way. I didn't buy this car to throw it away after 60k miles, so if Nissan doesn't figure out a way to replace those degraded packs at a very reasonable cost I will look to another manufacturer for my next EV.

Ok, your situation would be different you probably won't see a great discount. They do seem to be following a program of sorts determining discounts based on several factors but mostly on how close people were to missing the warranty. The closer, the bigger the discount. It seems several who missed by less than a year and had low mileage were getting 100%. Those missing by a less than a year with higher mileage getting 80%, etc.

For someone who hasn't gotten to the replacement level at all, I am not sure how that would work. We do have the advantage that pack replacement prices "should" go down but they won't go down to market value. That would be a mistake on Nissan's part because that encourages people to hang onto their old LEAFs and not upgrade to the newer ones.

I don't think that would be a widespread problem because it would appear "at this time" that Nissan will be offering VERY compelling reasons to get the 2018 especially if the 2018 SV with tech package actually does come in @ $35,000. With the tax credits still in place for likely most of 2018, that deal would be very hard to resist.

Even with the reduced range, its still a big range jump. A jump that exceeds the needs of the majority so not the "be all to end all" by any means but its

*several thousand less than Tesla with tech

* a few thousand less than Bolt with much lower level of tech.


So very much in a niche of its own.


So we have Tesla 3; still high end $$$, longer range, enhanced SC network (at least planned for my area) emerging tech, super cool

Bolt; very good range, $$, but not very well executed. Its a love it or hate it car. There seems to be no middle ground here. I consider it to be an econobox with battery on steroids.

LEAF II; Cheapest of the 3, also has emerging tech. More range but considerably below the Tesla extended and a 3rd range less than Bolt but has 2 years NCTC, more public charging support and guessing still more surprises that the reveal will reveal.

and finally; Nissan with best lease terms combined with loyalty credits does put it on equal footing with the other two.

So its all really dependent on your needs. There is no bad choice here.


http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2017/08 ... ng-is.html

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:32 pm
by SageBrush
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:So far as I know, 24 kWh packs are not being built anymore. So the replacement pack people are imagining they are going to buy in a few years will have sat in a warehouse for years prior to purchase, and come with a 1 year warranty. The same will happen with the 30 kWh packs a few years later.
Since you admittedly don't know. I think you should hold your comments.
I know that the 24 kWh packs are deprecated technology and Nissan has stated formally that the later packs will not fit.
I know that US law requires a manufacturer to offer replacement parts for 10 years

Do you have something useful to offer other than a blind faith in Nissan ? A faith I might add, that is a joke given Nissan's factual behavior towards LEAF customers. You live in la la land, and do a disservice towards people with limited funds who are being tempted to buy used LEAFs as inexpensive long-term transportation. I find your stance hypocritical since you know enough to lease and avoid the fall-out of your recommendations to others.

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:01 pm
by vijayl
Some of you might have seen my post on SFBayLeafs
I've a 2011 Leaf with 91K (8bars) and got an offer of 50-50 to replace the battery pack. This will put me in the out of pocket of close to 4K.. When I asked if I can get 80-20, rep said it is take it or leave it offer..

I didn't go for Battery check from 3rd year. Car hasn't gone to a dealer after 2nd free battery check and the Service Bulletin.
So everything against me -
  • ~2 years after the warranty
    No Servicing Doen after 2nd year
    30+K more miles than the 60K warranty

Others who got 60-40 or better, what is your mileage on your Leaf?

Should I try going with other dealers or asking for escalation?

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:05 pm
by SageBrush
vijayl wrote: Should I try going with other dealers or asking for escalation?
No. Sounds like a waste of time.
In your case Nissan is being quite reasonable. Generous even.

Lucky for you the LEAF2 is coming out soon and Nissan is on its best behavior.

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:10 pm
by Valdemar
vijayl wrote:Some of you might have seen my post on SFBayLeafs
I've a 2011 Leaf with 91K (8bars) and got an offer of 50-50 to replace the battery pack. This will put me in the out of pocket of close to 4K..
Replacement pack shouldn't be more than 6k installed considering the 1k old pack core. Why 4k? They don't want to pick up the labor to install it?

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:15 pm
by vijayl
Valdemar wrote:
vijayl wrote:Some of you might have seen my post on SFBayLeafs
I've a 2011 Leaf with 91K (8bars) and got an offer of 50-50 to replace the battery pack. This will put me in the out of pocket of close to 4K..
Replacement pack shouldn't be more than 6k installed considering the 1k old pack core. Why 4k? They don't want to pick up the labor to install it?
I'll know the actual quote tomorrow, when I go to the dealer. Nissan Rep told me it could be ~3.2k + Tax.

I'm assuming the packs are 2017 packs, correct?