Smidge204
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:42 pm

Details on Leaf & Volt EPA test : How they got 73 miles rang

Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:36 am

Finally getting a chance to actually review the spreadsheet...


"FE Conventional Fuels" (Cols. L, M, N)
Leaf: 106 city, 92 Hwy, 99 Combined
Volt: 35 City, 40 Hwy, 37 Combined

"Unadj. FE" (Cols. O, P, Q)
Leaf: 151.5 City, 131.3 Hwy, 141.69 combined (MPGe)
Volt: 45.41 City, 52.75 Hwy, 48.44 Combined

"This is what we actually got from the tests." :D


"Trans Desc" (Col. V)
Leaf: Automatic
Volt: Continuously Variable

"Trans Lockup" (Col. Y)
Leaf: Y
Volt: N

These two make no sense. Considering they also reported the Leaf as having a "DC Permanent Magnet" (see below) are they sure they actually tested a Leaf at all?


"Range 1 - Model Type Driving Range - Conventional Fuel" (Col. AE)
Leaf: 73
Volt: 344

I usually get about 360 miles out of my '04 Jetta before fillup. :D


"Fuel usage Description - Conventional Fuel" (Col. AG)
Leaf: Battery Electric
Volt: Gasoline (Premium Unleaded Required)

So the Volt needs premium grade gas. That makes cost effectiveness much more sensitive to economy. Poor Volt drivers!


"Calc Approach Desc" (Col. BN)
Leaf: "Derived 5-cycle label"
Volt: "Vehicle Specific 5-cycle label"

In other words, the Volt got special treatment while the Leaf got the generic "we don't know what else to do" treatment. :roll:


"Batt Specific Energy (Watt-hr/kg)" (Col. CL)
Leaf: 82.8
Volt: 80

Interesting.. anyone know what form factor the Volt uses for its cells? To they use the cylindrical cans?


"Motor Gen Type Desc" (Col. CY)
Leaf: DC Permanent Magnet, brushless
Volt: Other (3 Phase Asynchronous)

That's not right, is it?
=Smidge=
Last edited by evnow on Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed title

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evnow
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Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:47 am

Smidge204 wrote:"FE Conventional Fuels" (Cols. L, M, N)
Leaf: 106 city, 92 Hwy, 99 Combined
Volt: 35 City, 40 Hwy, 37 Combined

"Unadj. FE" (Cols. O, P, Q)
Leaf: 151.5 City, 131.3 Hwy, 141.69 combined (MPGe)
Volt: 45.41 City, 52.75 Hwy, 48.44 Combined

"This is what we actually got from the tests." :D
So, I've to wonder whether they used more than 30% fudge factor. Here it looks like 40%.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

Smidge204
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:42 pm

Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:21 am

evnow wrote:So, I've to wonder whether they used more than 30% fudge factor. Here it looks like 40%.
Unadjusted = 141.69
Adjustment: 0.70
Final: 99.183

Round it off to 99 and that's the MPGe on the EPA label.
=Smidge=

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evnow
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Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:25 am

Smidge204 wrote:Unadjusted = 141.69
Adjustment: 0.70
Final: 99.183

Round it off to 99 and that's the MPGe on the EPA label.
=Smidge=
That's right. I was incorrectly looking at 99 as the base.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

AndyH
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Location: San Antonio

Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:06 pm

Both cars use 'flat' laminated lithium ion cells, and both are a LiMn variant.

Intro to Volt Battery from GM:
http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/m ... ry_101.pdf

The Leaf service manual identifies the motor in this way:
• The traction motor contains a compact, lightweight, high output, high efficiency “Interior Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor (IPMSM)”.
• The traction motor inverter is a device which converts DC power from the Li-ion battery to AC power, and drives the traction motor. Because the AC power frequency and voltage can be varied when the DC power is converted to AC power, it provides control performance with a high degree of freedom.

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planet4ever
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Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:00 pm

Smidge204 wrote:"Trans Desc" (Col. V)
Leaf: Automatic
Volt: Continuously Variable

"Trans Lockup" (Col. Y)
Leaf: Y
Volt: N

These two make no sense.
I'm not sure why you say that. In a general sense, couldn't you say the LEAF has an automatic transmission (no clutch pedal) that can be (always is) locked into a single gear with no clutch in the transmission? You certainly can't make that second statement about the Volt - which has two clutches and a brake in the transmission, if I remember correctly - and the Volt's transmission is a CVT in the same sense as the Prius's (i.e. electrical, not mechanical).
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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evnow
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Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:19 pm

Here is the city/hwy break up of range.
FUEL CONSUMPTION(kWhr/100mile):32(CITY) 37(HWY) 34(Comb.),RANGE(mile):77(CITY) 67(HWY) 73(Comb.),BATTERY CHARGING TIME(Hour):7hours at 240V
So, considering 30% adjustment, the unadjusted range is

City : 110 miles.
Hwy : 95.7 miles.

All this with 3,700 lb (i.e. they have loaded Leaf with quite a bit of luggage).
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

AndyH
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:19 pm

evnow wrote:Here is the city/hwy break up of range.
FUEL CONSUMPTION(kWhr/100mile):32(CITY) 37(HWY) 34(Comb.),RANGE(mile):77(CITY) 67(HWY) 73(Comb.),BATTERY CHARGING TIME(Hour):7hours at 240V
So, considering 30% adjustment, the unadjusted range is

City : 110 miles.
Hwy : 95.7 miles.

All this with 3,700 lb (i.e. they have loaded Leaf with quite a bit of luggage).
Nissan reported an 'as tested' weight of 3750 lbs. The Euro press kit says curb weight between 3325 and 3509lbs. Someone else posted numbers that suggested the SL is 3375lbs empty. Maybe testing simulates 2 small occupants (~120lbs) or, well, a more 'typical' American and his/her briefcase/suitcase? I don't recall reading in the old J1634 that the car had to have weight added to simulate passengers or cargo. Dunno. :?

I haven't seen a current J1634 test procedure document but have a copy of the older spec, which required a continuous run thru multiple test cycles until the battery is depleted. Based on this DoE paper from June 2010, the new J1634 test might not include 'run to empty' but rather a much shorter cycle. The industry is (was?) looking for a shortcut. FWIW.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesand ... 2010_o.pdf

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evnow
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Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:38 pm

AndyH wrote:I haven't seen a current J1634 test procedure document but have a copy of the older spec, which required a continuous run thru multiple test cycles until the battery is depleted.
See the EPA_test_procedure_for_EVs-PHEVs-1-13-2011.pdf that OP links to. It gives exactly how the test was done (I've that text in the first page) - they run till the car can no longer keep pace. Then recharge to figure out the energu consumption from the wall. That is what they use to give kwh/100 mile stat.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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evnow
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Re: Response to EPA FOIA Request

Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:50 pm

Here is another interesting set.
City Unadj FE - Conventional Fuel : 151.5 MPGe
Hwy Unadj FE - Conventional Fuel : 131.3 MPGe

33.7 kilowatt-hours of electricity per gallon of gasoline
So,

City : 4.5 Miles/kwh
Hwy : 3.9 Miles/kwh

Remeber these are wall to wheels.

From earlier
City : 110 miles.
Hwy : 95.7 miles
So, the amount of energy used to charge, we get 2 figures, in close agreement.

City : 24.47 kwh
Hwy : 24.56 kwh

One thing to note is - we don't know whether the test ended soon after the turtle mode started. If the car couldn't keep the required speed in turtle mode, they would have stopped the test.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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