Page 4 of 7

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:04 am
by palmermd
SageBrush wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Yeah, I saw that, but then again those numbers are speculative estimates, while these are based on actuals.

The one big takeaway here is that globally, the Model 3 and the LEAF are essentially at sales parity.
No, Nissan rather conveniently stopped counting in October 2018 :lol:

The real take-away is that Tesla is running away from Nissan in sales. Tesla sold in a couple months the volume it took Nissan years, and the gap is now growing fast and accelerating.
That is because he is comparing a global sales market for the Leaf to the US sales market for Tesla Model 3. Tesla has not started selling outside the US until just this week, and then in only a few markets to start out. Within a few months they are going to be selling 2x or 3x the Leaf sales rate.

Leaf is a fine product, but lets not pretend it is the market leader any longer. They once had the title, but Tesla has intercepted and running away with the ball at this point. I don't see the plus cars getting the leader title back in Nissan's hands. It is a nice improvement, but depending on the price may not do much. The way I see it, it is the car that we expected Nissan to make at this point and for about the price they are selling the non plus for. They really cant put a big price differential between them or they just wont sell. So either very little price difference and all sales go to the plus or they lower the price of the non plus cars. That might be a big win for Nissan.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:53 pm
by OrientExpress
It's always fun to get the POV from the everyday driver. If it was only as simple as you guys see it.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:23 pm
by SageBrush
As opposed to the the shill POV ?
Nissan has been signalling better (LG) cells and a TMS for two generations now but they cannot make the switch and hope to sell any cars at whatever price point they set for themselves; the cars end up too costly to make.

Tough situation to be in, and it is not going away.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:33 pm
by palmermd
SageBrush wrote:As opposed the the shill POV ?
Nissan has been signalling better (LG) cells and a TMS for two generations now but they cannot make the switch and hope to sell any cars at whatever price point they set for themselves; the cars end up too costly to make.

Tough situation to be in, and it is not going away.
Exactly. The everyday driver is the force behind who is going to buy the cars. If we don't buy it, then what? It really is that simple.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:33 pm
by WetEV
SageBrush wrote:As opposed the the shill POV ?
As in "Tesla shill"?
SageBrush wrote:Nissan has been signalling better (LG) cells and a TMS for two generations now but they cannot make the switch and hope to sell any cars at whatever price point they set for themselves; the cars end up too costly to make.
Nissan says they are making money on the LEAF.

I so hope someone keeps building EVs without TMS systems. The TMS talk I've noticed all seemed to be rumors without sources.

I took a longer trip recently with 3 DCQC sessions. I usually limit my LEAF trips to one DCQC. Air temperature was about 5C. Battery got up to 30C. About 5C below where a TMS system might start to cool the battery.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:42 pm
by LeftieBiker
The TMS talk I've noticed all seemed to be rumors without sources.
Chevrolet Bolt

Chevrolet Volt

All Teslas.

Unless you mean 'Rumors of Nissan TMS' in which case I agree. Nissan produced vaporware TMS.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:36 pm
by derkraut
Oilpan4 wrote:All plug in sales are probably going to drop off a little with $2 a gallon gas.
As of today (jan 10, 2019) average gasoline price for 87 octane is still over $3/gal in Ca. :?

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:07 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
OrientExpress wrote:Yeah, I saw that, but then again those numbers are speculative estimates, while these are based on actuals.

The one big takeaway here is that globally, the Model 3 and the LEAF are essentially at sales parity.
You mean manufacturing limitations on Tesla's end. There is little doubt they could have a few more T3's had they the capacity to deliver them


On the topic; What does Nissan Energy bring to the LEAF?

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:15 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:As opposed the the shill POV ?
As in "Tesla shill"?
SageBrush wrote:Nissan has been signalling better (LG) cells and a TMS for two generations now but they cannot make the switch and hope to sell any cars at whatever price point they set for themselves; the cars end up too costly to make.
Nissan says they are making money on the LEAF.

I so hope someone keeps building EVs without TMS systems. The TMS talk I've noticed all seemed to be rumors without sources.

I took a longer trip recently with 3 DCQC sessions. I usually limit my LEAF trips to one DCQC. Air temperature was about 5C. Battery got up to 30C. About 5C below where a TMS system might start to cool the battery.
same here. With a lighter driving load and even lighter charging, my battery temps are in the low 50's most of the time. First charge (purely convenience and personal need) raised the temps to a blistering 62º. 2nd charge that was needed did get batteries to over 100º but by then we had done 200 miles and only charged as long as we did because we were eating.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:36 pm
by alozzy
Another factor, which should mean less degradation with the 62 kWh pack, is the typical depth of discharge (DoD).

For most people, the extra capacity will mean that they will very seldom discharge the pack by more than 20% - 25% between charging cycles. That translates to many more charging cycles over the life of the battery pack as compared to a 24 kWh pack where the DoD is much higher.

See this article, and table 2 in particular, for the correlation between DoD and the number of cycles over the life of the pack:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries