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Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:23 am
by smkettner
Nubo wrote:
webb14leafs wrote:The $1000 figure is insane, but I do understand states that have surcharges. Maintenance on Roads and Bridges are largely funded by gas taxes. We still drive on those roads and should pay our fair share.
Fine, eliminate the gasoline tax and charge ALL owners $1000.
The petrol tax s/b a pollution tax so keep it. In addition slap ALL vehicles with the same $1,000 for the roads ;)

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:16 am
by Nubo
webb14leafs wrote:
Nubo wrote:
webb14leafs wrote:The $1000 figure is insane, but I do understand states that have surcharges. Maintenance on Roads and Bridges are largely funded by gas taxes. We still drive on those roads and should pay our fair share.
Fine, eliminate the gasoline tax and charge ALL owners $1000.
A logical solution that will probably never happen. As I said, the $1000 figure is ridiculous. A usage tax on gasoline has made sense for years, especially when you consider that ligher/fuel efficient cars do less damage to roadways and thus pay less total tax. There's just no way to apply this type of tax to EVs.
Honestly, use-taxes for roads are archaic. Gasoline tax made sense when motorists were a minority clamoring for infrastructure. In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:23 am
by LurchOR
LTLFTcomposite wrote:LOL here we go with the Koch bros again

They do like their taxes in Illinois.
Do a search on "Koch brothers anti EV". The results look like "here we go again" with trying to slow down/eliminate EV adoption.
I didn't find anything on the Koch bros whining about subsidies or tax credits for fossil fuel industries.
Just sayin'

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:26 am
by WetEV
rmay635703 wrote:Don’t know why people are so hung up on directly charging individuals fees that are labeled “road tax” when that is both inefficient, has an element of fraud, and is regressive to the poor.
The idea is good, and comes from Adam Smith, the 18th century economist, or perhaps before.

By taxing the people that use something to build and/or maintain that something, the tax is sustainable and generally seen as fair.

If you tax someone that does not use the something, they will feel aggrieved and not want to pay. And the people that are using the something are not motivated to use it wisely. Both are important.

You use a bridge, you pay a toll, or in some similar way pay for the infrastructure you use. As long as bridges are expensive to build, it can make sense to charge the people using the bridge to pay for the bridge. That keeps the usage wise, as people see the cost directly.


We should also tax people that use the atmosphere as a dumping ground for CO2, nitrogen oxide, and more. Same general principal.

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:28 am
by WetEV
Nubo wrote:In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.
Commons? Generally a bad idea.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/ ... /1243.full

Why do you think cities are looking at congestion pricing?

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:13 am
by SageBrush
Nubo wrote:Roads should be funded from general taxes.
I disagree. That just perpetuates truck use when rail is much more efficient and less polluting.

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:32 am
by jlv
rmay635703 wrote:It’s a red herring and has to do with mismanagement of all the other tax bases that are meant to fund road repairs that magically get diverted to something else.
I won't be surprised when this $1000 fee IL is proposing doesn't go to road maintenance either.
smkettner wrote:The petrol tax s/b a pollution tax so keep it. In addition slap ALL vehicles with the same $1,000 for the roads ;)
+1

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:29 pm
by rmay635703
WetEV wrote:
Nubo wrote:In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.
Commons? Generally a bad idea.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/ ... /1243.full

Why do you think cities are looking at congestion pricing?
Congestion pricing only works if you include something akin to Kei car laws in the mix, or you loose productivity alongside traffic

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:02 pm
by WetEV
rmay635703 wrote:
WetEV wrote:
Nubo wrote:In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.
Commons? Generally a bad idea.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/ ... /1243.full

Why do you think cities are looking at congestion pricing?
Congestion pricing only works if you include something akin to Kei car laws in the mix, or you loose productivity alongside traffic
Loose productivity might hit someone. Maybe "lose"?

I don't have a clue why Kei cars would have more than marginal impact on congestion and congestion pricing. Perhaps you might explain.

Re: Illinois Insanity

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:36 pm
by LTLFTcomposite
rmay635703 wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:LOL here we go with the Koch bros again

They do like their taxes in Illinois.
Our former governor met with them weekly,

When was the last time you called your governor?
The new guy made his billions as a bartender?