armmynissanleaf
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3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:22 am

What do you think about this opinion? it's written by Plug and Play EV's Steve Birkette.

"The Japanese automaker claimed the crown for best-selling first-generation EV, but the 2019 Nissan Leaf fails to capitalize on the foundation it laid. "

https://www.torquenews.com/7893/3-reaso ... ts-ev-lead
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Tortoisehead77
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Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:47 am

I don't think CHAdeMO has anything to do with it. The Tesla is a superior vehicle; however, I am mostly happy with my 2018 Model S Leaf and would recommend the car to others for commuting, errands, or short road trips (200 miles).

The service nightmare and build quality stories about the Model III scared me out of purchasing one. I'm not sure how much of that is fact and how much was click-bait. I think Tesla will eventually get it right with the Model III.

LeftieBiker
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Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:48 am

Not wrong, but mistakes like this detract from it:
Although the styling of the new Nissan Leaf looked good, the specs that were eventually announced later that year completely failed to meet our needs. Nissan opted for the easier option of rolling out the updated Leaf with their existing 40kWh battery pack, which kept range at around 151 miles.
What "existing" 40kwh pack?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Durandal
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Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:59 am

Tortoisehead77 wrote:I don't think CHAdeMO has anything to do with it. The Tesla is a superior vehicle; however, I am mostly happy with my 2018 Model S Leaf and would recommend the car to others for commuting, errands, or short road trips (200 miles).

The service nightmare and build quality stories about the Model III scared me out of purchasing one. I'm not sure how much of that is fact and how much was click-bait. I think Tesla will eventually get it right with the Model III.
I love my Model 3. I've put 9,800 miles on it so far, and I've had zero issues with it, and it's 5x better than my old Leaf. (Over 5x the range too!)

That said, I wouldn't buy ANY car the first 6 months they are being made. I've already placed an order for a Model Y for my wife with a $2,500 deposit, but we will wait until they've been made for 6-9 months before we finalize the purchase.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf SL, traded it in and now I'm a very happy Tesla Model 3 owner.

SageBrush
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Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:20 pm

I think anything published in torquenews is a waste of bandwidth.
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Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:11 pm

SageBrush wrote:I think anything published in torquenews is a waste of bandwidth.
I think that Web "journalism" in general is a waste of time and effort. It's like crowd sourcing brain surgery.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:46 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I think anything published in torquenews is a waste of bandwidth.
I think that Web "journalism" in general is a waste of time and effort. It's like crowd sourcing brain surgery.
Do you think the same of forums ? Or do you think that some posts are valuable ? What happens if that post is written up as we journalism ? Does it turn into mush by definition ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:47 pm

SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I think anything published in torquenews is a waste of bandwidth.
I think that Web "journalism" in general is a waste of time and effort. It's like crowd sourcing brain surgery.
Do you think the same of forums ? Or do you think that some posts are valuable ? What happens if that post is written up as we journalism ? Does it turn into mush by definition ?
I think that forums are somewhat different from journalism, in that you know in advance that 35% of the content will be worthless, 25% will be downright misleading, and of the remaining two thirds or so or so you have to sift carefully for the useful information. Or, to put it another way, somewhat like journalism but with both more garbage and more good information in the same place at most sites.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
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Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:55 pm

armmynissanleaf wrote:What do you think about this opinion? it's written by Plug and Play EV's Steve Birkette.
1. Lack of Thermal Management in the Battery Pack
What market do you want? Performance? Cross country at high speed? Then you likely need TMS. Interesting to note that the VW Pikes Peak record car didn't use a TMS.

Ford had TMS in the Focus Electric, and had a similar battery life due to chemistry problems. Even in Phoenix.

Commuting? Local trips? Leisurely day and overnight trips with one L3 charge? Then you don't need TMS.

This isn't the number one problem that Nissan has had. The number one problem was the battery chemistry of the 2011, 2012 and early 2013 cars.

2. Slow to Deliver the 62kWh 2019 Nissan Leaf Plus
This isn't the number two problem for Nissan. Failure to correctly set customer expectations was.

3. Sticking with the CHAdeMO Standard
Right now, there are a lot of trips I could take with CHAdeMO that I can't take with CCS. Oregon coast, for one.

Looking ahead, CCS looks like the necessary standard. Has this been a problem? I don't think so. It will become one, however.
WetEV
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Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: 3 Reasons the 2019 Nissan Leaf Lost the Brand Its EV Lead

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:07 pm

So I agree that Nissan lost a window by rolling out the 62 pack until this year. It gave them the appearance of being flat footed in the US, though the Leaf is doing very well in other markets at even 40 kWh. Tesla 3 is selling more, but Nissan has not set up scale for the Leaf at the same volumes. Leaf and eNV are selling near or at capacity outside the US.

While I have a E+ (Kia not available in IL and 3 is not our style), I think in this case Nissan/Kia are hurt by the MSRP vs. actual price out the door. If you compare MSRP to MSRP between the Niro, 3 (SR+), and Leaf SV+ they all look very comparable (40ish). Niro and Leaf can go much lower for actual sale prices vs. the Tesla. Additionally, both Niro and Leaf have the full 7500 rebate. Now while the manufacturers know that, most consumers don't see that in their decision. Insurance for the Tesla is also nearly double the other cars.

Ex. Leaf SV + tech MRSP = 41K. SR+ with 41K with delivery, Niro base is also about 40K (each is a bit stronger in different areas). Including federal but not including state discounts which vary, the Leaf drops (for most consumers) to about 30K, the SR+ to 37K and the Niro base to 31K (35K for the premium) as they are not being discounted yet as heavily. the Tesla will likely not depreciate nearly as fast, which is big bonus to them. The Kia isn't available outside of 10 core states, so that gives the Leaf a little wiggle room, but guessing pressure will come in a year once Kia is able to catch up with demand.

Alex on Autos did a nice side by side, and the Kia has the best range of the 3, followed by the Leaf, then the Tesla. All 3 chat groups have multiple accounts of cars exceeding the posted EPA range, so calling it a draw.

All 3 cars are plenty fast, so for many that is not a selling factor.

The Chademo vs. CCS vs. super charger is really only a factor if you plan to take road trips. Any of the 3 work fine for the occasional accelerated charge, but that's it. More Chademo, CCS, and Super Charger stations are going up monthly. The CCS is catching up with Chademo, but both station types are still growing ( . The curve ball out there in terms of standards is the entrance of the Chinese cars, which are joining standards with Chademo for the 400 kWh standard. If they make investments in the US market that could make things a horse race. Without it, Nissan and Mitsubishi won't be enough long term to hold the standard. Leaf, Outlander, and the handful of Toyota/Honda cars only add 20-30K cars a year right now. A number of Tesla users have the adapter, which modestly improves usage in some areas.

Like all things, let's see.
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