johnlocke
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:30 am

powersurge wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:40 am
lorenfb wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:09 pm
MOTORTREND:
Twin-Motor Nissan Leaf Is an Electric Hot Hatch With 501 LB-FT of Torque
Nissan revealed a prototype Leaf electric vehicle that showcases technology that will arrive in its next generation of EVs. Based on the Leaf Plus, which has a larger battery than the standard Leaf and an EPA-estimated range of 215 to 226 miles, depending on trim level, this demo vehicle packs two electric motors, one mounted on each axle, and 17-inch wheels shod with staggered-width tires. The prototype even gets wider fenders that hint at its performance aspirations.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/twin-mo ... of-torque/
Adding a SECOND motor sounds like a teenager trying to supercharge his gocart... If an additional motor was added, that would mean extra weight AND where you they put the DOUBLE BATTERY you would need to power it??? Sounds like a weak attempt to make a Nissan EV headline out of nothing...
Adding a second motor could actually improve efficiency and it adds AWD to the car. It also makes them more competitive with Tesla. Why on earth would you need a second battery? Have you never heard of a dual motor Tesla?
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

HerdingElectrons
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Central Coast, Ca

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:41 am

johnlocke wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:30 am
Do yourself a favor & just block pwersurge. His post history is my submission of overwhelming evidence of my POV.

Especially laughable is considering how much time he spends here engineering concepts like using two motors with different final gearing ratios for improved efficiency because the motors can be controlled based on software & appropriate inputs in ways that an ICE+transmission drivetrain could never achieve flexibility wise seems lost on him as to why one might want both all wheels driven among multiple other advantages
2018 SL Pearl White 4.5/3.9 Warm/Cold weather

09/18, 01K mi: AHr= 114.52 / SOH= 99.20 / HX= 099.70%
04/19, 10K mi: Ahr= 111.45 / SOH= 96.54 / HX= 113.82%
11/19, 20K mi: Ahr= 107.44 / SOH= 93.07 / HX= 109.96%

powersurge
Posts: 1743
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:53 am

HerdingElectrons wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:41 am
johnlocke wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:30 am
Do yourself a favor & just block pwersurge. His post history is my submission of overwhelming evidence of my POV.

Especially laughable is considering how much time he spends here engineering concepts like using two motors with different final gearing ratios for improved efficiency because the motors can be controlled based on software & appropriate inputs in ways that an ICE+transmission drivetrain could never achieve flexibility wise seems lost on him as to why one might want both all wheels driven among multiple other advantages
HEY! What are you talking about? How dare you start posting that I should be blocked? Have I committed a crime by suggesting that another motor will add more weight to the current Leaf, and would also require a larger battery, which would weigh alot more or reduce range?

Also, what are you talking about that I talk about gear ratios? You got the wrong guy, i have never written any of that dribble. Yes, 2 motors would be nice, buy we are talking about new, longer range Leafs, not making them Teslas.

I have a right to not believe press releases of pie in the sky claims of what cars will "be released in the future". Most of it will never happen.

Just stop badmouthing people when they are adding a thought to a conversation..lllllll
Last edited by powersurge on Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

golfcart
Posts: 458
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:59 am

I wish they had made that car in 2018 so I could get it used in 3 years for under $30k. I love fast hatchbacks like the WRX, Focus RS, GTI, etc...

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it, or something similar to it, gets made.
2018 SV
Build Date: 2/18
Date in Service: 3/19

powersurge
Posts: 1743
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:19 am

As an after thought.....

check this article.... They state that the 2 motor Leaf will never be produced, but they are playing around with future possibilities.

https://www.motor1.com/news/378219/niss ... ic-motors/

So is it so strange when I thought in my previous post that it would never be made?

SageBrush
Posts: 5413
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:56 am

HerdingElectrons wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:41 am
Do yourself a favor & just block pwersurge.
Yep. Once you have read one Trumper you have read them all, and any more is just a waste of time and annoying.

If it is not political nonsense it is car nonsense.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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EVDRIVER
Moderator
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:22 am

powersurge wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:40 am
lorenfb wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:09 pm
MOTORTREND:
Twin-Motor Nissan Leaf Is an Electric Hot Hatch With 501 LB-FT of Torque
Nissan revealed a prototype Leaf electric vehicle that showcases technology that will arrive in its next generation of EVs. Based on the Leaf Plus, which has a larger battery than the standard Leaf and an EPA-estimated range of 215 to 226 miles, depending on trim level, this demo vehicle packs two electric motors, one mounted on each axle, and 17-inch wheels shod with staggered-width tires. The prototype even gets wider fenders that hint at its performance aspirations.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/twin-mo ... of-torque/
Adding a SECOND motor sounds like a teenager trying to supercharge his gocart... If an additional motor was added, that would mean extra weight AND where you they put the DOUBLE BATTERY you would need to power it??? Sounds like a weak attempt to make a Nissan EV headline out of nothing...
Clearly you need to educate yourself more on the advantages of dual motors, AWD, and battery design.

johnlocke
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:21 pm

Okay, here's a thought. How about four motors? One for each wheel, either in hub or inboard on a short shaft. Eliminate the steering rack, pitman arms, ball joints and anything else associated with the steering. Front wheels no longer pivot. Go with torque vector steering electronically controlled. Just like a skid steer on a Bobcat. Just slow down the inside wheels to turn. Or even run the wheels on one side in reverse to pivot in place. You would have to have steer by wire of course which might worry some people. You could do away with the steering wheel and use a console mounted joystick instead. You could cover the wheel wells with removable skirts to improve the CD.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

SageBrush
Posts: 5413
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:42 pm

The upcoming Tesla Roadster has 3 motors. If I remember correctly two in the back and one in the front. On the flip side, Toyota offers a pseudo AWD in the Prius line-up with one motor that is good for snow traction but not off-roading.

I'm mostly agnostic when it comes to AWD but certainly it can inexpensive to implement and is (relatively) not difficult technically.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Re: 300-mile LEAF to be Announced this Month?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:15 pm

It seems to me that there is room for both the current Leaf and whatever the Ariya becomes in their EV lineup. I'm not a Leaf hater though.

Their current offering is very much a viable car for a large fraction of the population for a significant portion of that segment's transportation needs, air-cooled battery notwithstanding. It certainly is for us, and our needs are not that dramatically different from mainstream, nor is our climate some kind of outlier.

The question in my mind is only whether they would be able or willing to offer the current Leaf, perhaps with some minor content updates to sweeten the pie, at a price point that would be interesting for a mid-range commuter car. Position the new car at a higher price point and reduce the current car to near where it lands after incentives, which is to say high-20's to low-30's. Another way to put this is make it a Corolla/Sentra/Civic/Mazda3 hatchback competitor. Our car drives rings around any of those at the price point we ended up paying. i drive them regularly (when traveling for business), and none of them is anything to write home about except perhaps the Mazda.

The current offering is not a Tesla, and doesn't pretend to be. Nor does it need to be in order to find some acceptance in the market. Minor updates to increase content, and perhaps add a dollup of sexy to go with its performance would be helpful from a perceived value point of view.

Would the numbers work? No idea. Consensus seems to be doubtful, but VW is claiming a battery price near $100/kWh. So how far off would they be really?

Can they overcome institutional conflicts / internal leadership vacuum? That's a tough question. But with VW clearly joining the fray and going all in, there might be some air-cover for re-embracing lost intentions. Every mainstream maker is faced with these kinds of internal struggles in the current market. Time will tell. But in my mind their product line could certainly carry both offerings with some tweaks.

Edit: Additions for clarity
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI

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