LeftieBiker
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:22 pm

Comparison fixed.
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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danrjones
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:38 pm

Yep

Rather like life, one dreams big, but reality often dictates something quite different.

Though if you had said a "A Leaf driver pulls up to a bar..."
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:41 pm

"That's no golf cart - that's my car!!!"
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Nubo
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:48 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:41 pm
"That's no golf cart - that's my car!!!"
I always laugh when people try to insult EVs as "glorified golf carts". People frigging LOVE golf carts! Yes, my car is a glorified golf cart and that's why I love it! The only time I am disappointed by golf carts is when you get one of those chug-chug gas powered ones and have to breathe exhaust fumes throughout the day. My local course recently got a new fleet of carts with Lithium batteries. They're wonderful.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

Oilpan4
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:44 am

The leaf is ahead of its time because all the other OEMs were waiting for someone else to do it so they could see what happens.
If it wasn't for Nissan then tesla would own the market. Not sure if that would be a good thing or not.
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Is going to get you.

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jlv
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:08 am

Oilpan4 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:44 am
The leaf is ahead of its time because all the other OEMs were waiting for someone else to do it so they could see what happens.
If it wasn't for Nissan then tesla would own the market. Not sure if that would be a good thing or not.
Tesla does own the market anyplace where they are shipping Model 3s.

9 years after the Prius came out Toyota was putting hybrid drive trains into all their other cars. 9 years after the LEAF came out, Nissan does not seem to be doing much still.
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GerryAZ
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:30 pm

Nissan saved me the trouble of collecting parts and doing a conversion when they announced the LEAF in late 2009 or early 2010. Tesla would probably still be concentrating on $80k to $100k EVs if Nissan had not shown there was a market for reasonably-priced EVs. The other manufacturers would not be doing anything with EVs without California's mandates along with Nissan's and Tesla's leadership.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
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GaleHawkins
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Location: Murray KY

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:26 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:30 pm
Nissan saved me the trouble of collecting parts and doing a conversion when they announced the LEAF in late 2009 or early 2010. Tesla would probably still be concentrating on $80k to $100k EVs if Nissan had not shown there was a market for reasonably-priced EVs. The other manufacturers would not be doing anything with EVs without California's mandates along with Nissan's and Tesla's leadership.
No question the Leaf has played a major role in showing the world EV's time has come. We know from posts here the Leaf has been behind the purchases of Bolt and Tesla EV's when people needed more range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster_(2008)

Elon Musk states in the video below they thought Telsa could buy bodies and EV drive trains from third parties and successfully build and market EV's. He has stated publicly he was very wrong on both ideas. By going ahead and building out the 2500 Lotus gliders they learned the hard way that going vertical instead of horizontal was going to be required to become an major EV maker.

Building 2500 mistakes from 2003 to 2012 (Roadster era) taught Tesla they had to build the chassis and drive train from ground up including the battery pack. He hits some history in the 2020 round table discussion below.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/02/e ... ng-away/
Elon Musk Shares History Of Tesla Battery Modules & Why They Are Going Away

In time we will learn more as to why Nissan failed to take the early Leaf lead to the next step. I expect we will come to learn it was mainly a management issue instead of technical issues.

lorenfb
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:08 am

GaleHawkins wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:26 am

No question the Leaf has played a major role in showing the world EV's time has come. We know from posts here the Leaf has been behind the purchases of Bolt and Tesla EV's when people needed more range.
Range hasn't helped the Bolt. Its sales are lackluster like the Leaf's. Yes, its features could be better, but not the key issue.
GaleHawkins wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:26 am
In time we will learn more as to why Nissan failed to take the early Leaf lead to the next step. I expect we will come to learn it was mainly a management issue instead of technical issues.
Most as yet don't perceive value in a BEV versus an ICEV, notwithstanding the Tesla M3. Tesla is unique in the automotive market,
i.e. a M3 with a GM or Ford logo would most likely achieve less than 25% of M3's sales volume, lacking the Tesla brand.
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#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:48 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:40 pm
The Leaf wasn't "A car before (ahead of) it's time." It was "A car released before it was ready." Nissan knew that there were possible issues with the passively cooled battery, but it was put into production anyway. They did test it extensively, but the degradation apparently required both time and heat to appear quickly enough to show up in road tests in cooler climates. I suspect that the 'Canary pack' may also have had quality issues similar to the later 30kwh 'Lettuce pack' that resulted in some packs that held up better than others (although not in high temps).
Partially. There are actually dozens of missteps Nissan took but the biggest one was simply not knowing their customers.

The 24 kwh pack was a mistake from Day One. What they failed to realize is that using the "average American" driving distance was a HUGE mistake.

This was an EV; a watershed event. So why anyone would think that "normal" people would be the first on board with the concept should have raised major red flags.

First adopters were anything but. Most were engineers, computer people, and other higher paying jobs and DID NOT average 35 miles a day. They worked in city centers and made enough money to live in the suburbs so their commutes were double the average if not more.

So Nissan should have started with the 40 kwh pack. Sure it would have been more money but Nissan would have been much further ahead now if they had done that.

If we had to narrow the list to the ONE thing Tesla did right? It would be dumping the 40 kwh option on the Model S.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
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