DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1999
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:01 pm

Agreed that Tesla made the right move there and quickly. How many Tesla 40s are actually left in the wild? I would be curious as their residual range.

Nissan should head hunt from one of the new EV start ups for its next head.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14977
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:49 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:08 am
GaleHawkins wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:26 am

No question the Leaf has played a major role in showing the world EV's time has come. We know from posts here the Leaf has been behind the purchases of Bolt and Tesla EV's when people needed more range.
Range hasn't helped the Bolt. Its sales are lackluster like the Leaf's. Yes, its features could be better, but not the key issue.

Correct. The key issue was Chevy's less than lackluster support at launch, limited sales area, horrendous lease terms, complete ignorance of passenger comfort and a dealership that did all they could to sabotage the car.

Negating range; how many people do you know that preferred the Bolt over their LEAF?

Yeah, that should have been enough but moreso; how many people left LEAF and went elsewhere despite loving their LEAF? A ton and why? It was range so no matter what you got to say about Bolt and its truckload of issues; the range issue on the LEAF does not change.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1999
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:01 pm

I agree there. We tried the Bolt when it came out. In spite of great range for the money..just couldn’t do it. Ugly and uncomfortable. If they made it Tesla cool. Like a mini Vette, it could have sold like hot cakes.

Leaf has lost a lot of following for falling behind. It will take quite a new leader to turn it around. Else internal visionless business suits will kill whats left.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15330
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:03 pm

Leaf has lost a lot of following for falling behind.

Only the battery has fallen behind. The Leaf remains the Gold Standard for affordable, comfortable EVs. When the other manufacturers figure out that a $50 heated steering wheel isn't something that should cost $4k in other, unwanted, "upgrades", and they make their long range EVs comfortable and user-friendly, that will be a historic day indeed.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:04 pm

I’m not convinced that the “average“ mainstream American has any interest whatsoever in driving a BEV.

I’ve spoken with dozens of people from a variety of lifestyles and interests. It’s not on their radar.

Lots of prejudice and misinformation to be sure. But more than anything no perceived benefit. As far as I can tell, BEVs are seen as a solution seeking a problem.

Drive a futuristic sports car? “Maybe, sure.” Drive an electric Corolla? “Shrug”.

Hopefully this will change. The Leaf and the Bolt and the others fail to make a compelling case to those buyers who are most interested in that segment. Until that changes, sales will lag in my opinion.

Outside of Tesla, there just hasn’t been advertising support or excitement. And the problems noted here with dealers just compound the issue.

Range anxiety is real, as is sticker shock. Our SL+ after incentives in Colorado was compelling. But that’s not the norm. Even bona fide Boulderites aren’t convinced.

We like our Leaf. A lot. Great little car. Lots of people here clearly don’t. I think that’s a shame. On the other hand, minus those incentives we’d still be on the sidelines watching and waiting.

In this sense I think the Leaf was a car before it’s time. Not quite there yet but closer than ever. Time will tell.
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI

lorenfb
Posts: 2464
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:00 pm

frontrangeleaf wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:04 pm
As far as I can tell, BEVs are seen as a solution seeking a problem.
Right. As I've noted before about a comparison between a smartphone and a BEV:

The smartphone fulfilled the need in search of a product. The BEV is a product in search of a need.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

GaleHawkins
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:30 pm

frontrangeleaf wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:04 pm
I’m not convinced that the “average“ mainstream American has any interest whatsoever in driving a BEV.

I’ve spoken with dozens of people from a variety of lifestyles and interests. It’s not on their radar.

Lots of prejudice and misinformation to be sure. But more than anything no perceived benefit. As far as I can tell, BEVs are seen as a solution seeking a problem.

Drive a futuristic sports car? “Maybe, sure.” Drive an electric Corolla? “Shrug”.

Hopefully this will change. The Leaf and the Bolt and the others fail to make a compelling case to those buyers who are most interested in that segment. Until that changes, sales will lag in my opinion.

Outside of Tesla, there just hasn’t been advertising support or excitement. And the problems noted here with dealers just compound the issue.

Range anxiety is real, as is sticker shock. Our SL+ after incentives in Colorado was compelling. But that’s not the norm. Even bona fide Boulderites aren’t convinced.

We like our Leaf. A lot. Great little car. Lots of people here clearly don’t. I think that’s a shame. On the other hand, minus those incentives we’d still be on the sidelines watching and waiting.

In this sense I think the Leaf was a car before it’s time. Not quite there yet but closer than ever. Time will tell.
In my part of the USA say from Memphis TN to Louisville KY the interest in EV's are very low today. Our 2016 Leaf is the first one many have seen and most would not know a fancy car with a T on each end came from Tesla. I do a lot of selling of the EV concept one on one but we are years away from customers coming in asking to test drive an EV. Now with Nissan exiting Europe and laying off corporate wide I think it is over for the Leaf. It does seem to be a car before time but Nissan did nothing that I have seen to promote the Leaf. Without advertising Tesla built an EV brand and created demand for a Tesla. I do not think most in upper management at Nissan is losing sleep over losing the Leaf but will try to save the Nissan brand even if it means pulling all the way back to Japan. Nissan has indicated downsizing plans will be ready by May 2020. We will see. If they come very late or never come it will be telling of the future I expect. Nissan is not out cash yet but do they have enough to buy some time to reorganize?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14977
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:13 am

frontrangeleaf wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:04 pm
I’m not convinced that the “average“ mainstream American has any interest whatsoever in driving a BEV.

That is the norm and HIGHLY dependent on your location. I find this to VERY much NOT be the case in my area. Each location presents its own challenges especially in the area of personal transportation. I only need to travel 100 mile east to find a very different attitude towards plugs. Probably very similar to what you see.

Is this unusual? Hardly. If we examine trends thru out the past several decades we will see the coasts adopting them years or decades before flyover country.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
SalisburySam
Gold Member
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 24 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 018156
Location: Salisbury, NC

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:20 pm

frontrangeleaf wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:04 pm
I’m not convinced that the “average“ mainstream American has any interest whatsoever in driving a BEV...Outside of Tesla, there just hasn’t been advertising support or excitement. And the problems noted here with dealers just compound the issue.
I agree, based on what I see in the Piedmont area of NC from Charlotte to Greensboro. I see Teslas, and many more of them than LEAFs, and a few Volts now and then, but I've yet to see more than one Bolt in the wild around here so far, and none in dealerships despite requests to see one.

And for the record, Tesla does not advertise.
Nissan 2012 LEAF SL, 13,500 miles, 9 bars, 35-mile range

Tesla Model 3: Long Range Rear Wheel Drive | Extended AutoPilot | Full Self-Driving | HW3 Upgrade
Delivered: July, 2018 | 15,200 miles | PM me for Tesla referral code

johnlocke
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Is the Leaf really a car before its time?

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:09 pm

Any BEV only becomes compelling when it becomes cheaper to operate than a ICE. If you live in an area with cheap electricity or are on solar, you can make a case for it. At this point you have to own or rent a house and be able to charge at home. If you can't do that then charging costs at public stations will likely eat up the cost savings on fuel and maintenance. That leaves being green as the major reason to own a BEV. Most people aren't Kermit.

I do own my own home and generate over 90% of my power from an extensive solar array. I drive 18000 miles a year. A Leaf was a no-brainer for me. Compared to what I was driving before, the savings in gas nearly made the monthly payment. The only maintenance has been tires and a 12v battery. The lifespan of the traction battery has been the only real disappointment I've had with the car. I'll buy another BEV in a year or two but it won't be a Nissan. I drove Nissans for over 30 years but I won't buy another one.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

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