SageBrush
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:02 am

cwerdna wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:30 am
ejm4 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:59 pm
I watched a YouTube video from Out of Spec Motoring. They visited EA and he asked several questions and it seems as if EA plans to minimally support CHAdeMO and will focus more on CCS. Interesting enough they (EA) has partnered with Tesla to supply battery storage for EA.
EA seems to be doing the bare minimal (legally required?) to "support" CHAdeMO given that they're VW of America owned and EA was part of their dieselgate penance. They got to spend $2 billion of their own $ on a network where they could stack the deck in favor of their own brands (VW, Audi, and Porsche) and their US-market interests by setting a trend/forcing the hands of other automakers, including Nissan.
Nissan and CHAdeMO are no worse off now than what they would be had EA never existed.
VW is giving free infrastructure to EVERY CCS EV in America. If any 'deck stacking' is happening , it is from the S. Korean brands
And of course nothing is stopping Nissan from spending a couple $B of their money to build out a network that 'forces' the hand of others.

In my opinion the US regulators acted foolishly, but not because they supported CCS. CHAdeMO should have been ignored, and Tesla cables added to the EA network instead, as befits the scope of EPA/CARB to maximize the reduction of pollution. That is done by supporting the charging protocols of the cars that the majority of the public are buying.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:59 am

You assume Tesla wanted to play with EA... 2 years ago guessing they didn't.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:53 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:59 am
You assume Tesla wanted to play with EA... 2 years ago guessing they didn't.
Actually it was the other way around. Tesla was more than willing to participate but VW was against anything that would have helped Tesla in any way and guessing that feeling hasn't changed a bit.

I see a LOT of people warming up to VW because of EA as if EA was born out of generosity and I am quite frankly a bit perplexed. They have proven nothing to me but I know people who are acting like VW has been an established leader in the EV field coming out with it latest greatest innovation including gushing over a product learned thru VW ads and social media postings.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
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SageBrush
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:33 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:53 am
I see a LOT of people warming up to VW because of EA as if EA was born out of generosity and I am quite frankly a bit perplexed. They have proven nothing to me but I know people who are acting like VW has been an established leader in the EV field coming out with it latest greatest innovation including gushing over a product learned thru VW ads and social media postings.
No problemo

They took their 'clean diesel' adverts and changed 'diesel' to 'vw'
Voila ! 'Clean VW' is born
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
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SageBrush
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:41 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:53 am
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:59 am
You assume Tesla wanted to play with EA... 2 years ago guessing they didn't.
Actually it was the other way around. Tesla was more than willing to participate but VW was against anything that would have helped Tesla in any way
Sounds about right. I think the regulators were also in favor of only supporting 'open' standards. And you can bet that Nissan rode the 'open' standards horse gleefully to gain even the token cables they were given. That has not changed, by the way. Every publicaly subsidized charging I have ever read about touts the same language. In this case though, 'open standards' is just a pandering excuse or echo chamber rather than well thought out social policy.

IIRC, EA is mandated to run and maintain the network for 10 years. We'll see who the owner becomes then, and how they choose to outfit cables when the market prevails. 7 more years to go ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:21 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:02 am
CHAdeMO should have been ignored, and Tesla cables added to the EA network instead, as befits the scope of EPA/CARB to maximize the reduction of pollution. That is done by supporting the charging protocols of the cars that the majority of the public are buying.
In Elon's dreams.

Tesla's supercharger network is a dagger to the throat of every other auto maker out there. Why would VW pay to make the threat bigger?
WetEV
#49
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SageBrush
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:43 pm

A snippet from my NULL basket wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:21 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:02 am
CHAdeMO should have been ignored, and Tesla cables added to the EA network instead, as befits the scope of EPA/CARB to maximize the reduction of pollution. That is done by supporting the charging protocols of the cars that the majority of the public are buying.
Tesla's supercharger network is a dagger to the throat of every other auto maker out there. Why would VW pay to make the threat bigger?
For the same reason that non-Tesla CCS is open to Tesla in Europe
For the same reason that VW is offering the S. Koreans access

Remember: it was VW money, but the US regulators had the final say. They could have rejected the 'open standards' ploy that VW and Nissan trotted out.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:59 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:43 pm
For the same reason that non-Tesla CCS is open to Tesla in Europe
Oh, and why is Tesla CCS open to everyone in Europe?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:59 pm

WetEV wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:21 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:02 am
CHAdeMO should have been ignored, and Tesla cables added to the EA network instead, as befits the scope of EPA/CARB to maximize the reduction of pollution. That is done by supporting the charging protocols of the cars that the majority of the public are buying.
In Elon's dreams.

Tesla's supercharger network is a dagger to the throat of every other auto maker out there. Why would VW pay to make the threat bigger?
Because this is the US and VW does not wield the power that forced Germany to require CCS adapters for Tesla. The reality is we failed. We allowed ourselves to be manipulated.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
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alozzy
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Re: CHAdeMO dead?

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:42 pm

Mass adoption and scale necessitates a single L2 standard and a single DC L3 standard that's viable for the next 20 years (at a minimum). So, ALL these proprietary BS "standards" have to go.

Any mass infrastructure rollout needs to be delayed until the EV industry and governments figure this out. The world wide EV charging infrastructure cost is going to be staggering, so there's no way we can afford to get this wrong!
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