frontrangeleaf
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:38 am

Forecast lows in Denver will drop into territory the next few days where the 62kwh battery in our Leaf Plus might get more than uncomfortable. The limit per the owner's manual is -4F (-20C).

Strangely, the battery warmer reportedly will not come on unless it's plugged in, unlike the 40kwh battery. I can't begin to understand that apparent quirk, but that's what the OM says. So out of an abundance of caution, we charged up the Leaf last night, and will keep it in the garage overnight the next few days. It normally lives in the driveway.

Looking at the weather map, my guess is quite a few here might want to consider similar steps. Denver is on the edge of the cold snap. East of us, it's much worse.

Does anyone know what happens if the battery actually gets below -4F?

-b
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI: SOLD

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5787
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:54 am

Over at TMS I read an interesting thread from a guy in SK who was unhappy with cabin heating in -30C to -50C weather. He was told by a few people to accept the limits of what an EV can handle, but it turned out to be a faulty sensor.

-30C = -22F
-50C = -58F

As for the LEAF restriction, it makes sense to not brick the battery. I think the Tesla will use battery energy for heat down to a SoC limit
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:58 am

This is one of those situations where L-1 charging can be better than L-2, by keeping the battery slightly warmer for long periods. Those with no other option may want to consider a thick, multi-layer universal car cover that hangs right to the ground, to slow the speed at which the battery loses heat...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

goldbrick
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:17 pm

My Leaf is in the garage and showed 23F on the temp gauge this morning when I left. It went to 1F on the drive to work so I think my garage is warmer than outside, at least last night. My car is a 2017S and I thought for sure it had battery heaters but from another thread it appears that the 2016SV does not have battery heaters in the US :o so I'm not sure. I'll probably just plug it into my L1 charger tomorrow if it gets really cold but it still showed 3 temp bars today so I don't think it will be an issue. With the wild temperature swings we get in CO it is easy to see that it takes > 24hrs for the battery to cool or heat significantly due to ambient temperature changes.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:26 pm

I too am amazed - although I guess I shouldn't be - that Nissan just deleted all of the battery warmers from US Leafs in 2016.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

PrairieLEAF
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019
Location: Weld County, Colorado

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:52 pm

I'll probably have it do some L1 charging Sunday night.

I was worried that our old rooster froze last night, but I put him and the duck in an inside kennel with a lamp and blankets and he seems more like his usual self again. They'll stay in there for the weekend, at least. I hope the goats will be alright--I'd probably regret letting them inside.

Stay warm, all!
2016 LEAF S-30 w/QC "Lexie"

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:29 pm

It was only -10 C here today. I tried the heat+AC trick on the S+ and yes, it lowers the draw. At an inside temp setting of 62F, my heater draw was only 1kWh, with recirculation on. Not bad.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

jjeff
Posts: 2262
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:52 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:29 pm
It was only -10 C here today. I tried the heat+AC trick on the S+ and yes, it lowers the draw. At an inside temp setting of 62F, my heater draw was only 1kWh, with recirculation on. Not bad.
What is this trick you talk about? I also have an S, albeit not a + and quite a bit older but I wonder if it would work on mine? Truthfully whenever I push AUTO and both the heat and A/C come on I immediately push A/C off, thinking I'm using less battery as I figure why the heck would I want the A/C to be on when it's <30F out! maybe I should rethink this?

Also I didn't see this thread(which is probably more appropriate) but for anyone interested in battery heater operation in a '12SL Leaf, you might want to check out this thread where I posted some findings over the last couple days and will continue for a couple days more.
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 8&start=10
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
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'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:34 am

Wi noticed that running heat and AC together had a lower draw than heat alone. Because AC is running, I could keep recirculate on and not fog the windows in the cold...further reducing the heat draw once car had run for a while.

I drove just shy of a 100 miles (mainly highway at above 70 for much of it) and rolled in with a bit under half power starting with a full charge. Considering that was done with heat, where my 2013 could muster about 60 miles with no heat at 50mph in this type of weather i thought was pretty good.

Battery temp.was interesting. I left with a high temp monitor reading of 51.5F, was at 52.5F at the halfway point, but was at 56.6F at the end (i did drive faster on way back), even at 12-15F outside temp battery warmed a little bit.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

jjeff
Posts: 2262
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Extreme cold overnight hits Leaf Plus cold limits

Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:17 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:34 am
.....Battery temp.was interesting. I left with a high temp monitor reading of 51.5F, was at 52.5F at the halfway point, but was at 56.6F at the end (i did drive faster on way back), even at 12-15F outside temp battery warmed a little bit.
Thanks, I'll give it a try, it just seemed counterintuitive for energy savings to run both heat and A/C but your idea of being able to use recirc and in my case not bring in sub-zero temps may more than offset the A/C draw. Also I wonder if the A/C will even come on in my zero temps, sounds like you were in warmer temps....
I had a similar experience to you last weekend driving my '12 around when it was again around 0F. It started out with a battery temp of about 0F but quickly warmed up to 20F after only about 5 miles of mostly side streets with full heat, not full speed freeway driving. After less than 1 mile of driving I got the turtle, with I believe >60 SOC. It wasn't the full, crawl speed turtle you get with extremely low SOC but rather just limited me to 4? power bubbles(less than half) but was perfectly adequate to drive in. Note the turtle still stayed on my dash up to my halfway destination when the battery was 20F but after shopping for about an hour I started the Leaf, where I believe the battery was still around 20F and the turtle was no longer on. The power bubbles were still not full but just lacked the top 1/4 vs before when I only had the bottom 1/4 available.
I should note my '12 only has 8 battery bars so maybe that explains some of the odd behavior I'm having in extreme cold temps, looking at the histogram? of the battery cell voltages are all over the map :(
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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