Herm
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:32 am

It would be interesting to see if the lost bar affects the trade-in value.

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RegGuheert
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:55 am

Herm wrote:It would be interesting to see if the lost bar affects the trade-in value.
It should. In many regards, it is more important than the odometer reading.

It will be interesting to see how Edmund's deals with Blue Book values on EVs and whether battery condition eventually gets factored in.
RegGuheert
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10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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Herm
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:44 am

Most appraisers wont even see that lost bars.. the first owners to trade-in will benefit from it, until prices collapse* and Nissan amends the warranty and updates the software under heavy bad publicity.

* in AZ, clearly it will pay to follow this forum

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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 am

What I don't understand currently is how Nissan has publicly stated that the battery capacity losses are isolated incidences and are only happening to a few vehicles. But, if these are isolated, that means the loss is NOT NORMAL. So, if its not normal, our batteries and cells should be replaced. If it is normal, then none of these losses should be isolated to a select few. Could Nissan have talked themselves into a corner? You can't have a few isolated incidences be considered normal in my opinion. Either most people have it happen and its normal, or only a few and its abnormal (and requires replacement and repair).
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myleaf
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:11 am

Pipcecil wrote:What I don't understand currently is how Nissan has publicly stated that the battery capacity losses are isolated incidences and are only happening to a few vehicles. But, if these are isolated, that means the loss is NOT NORMAL. So, if its not normal, our batteries and cells should be replaced. If it is normal, then none of these losses should be isolated to a select few. Could Nissan have talked themselves into a corner? You can't have a few isolated incidences be considered normal in my opinion. Either most people have it happen and its normal, or only a few and its abnormal (and requires replacement and repair).
I'm in AZ (about to loose a bar) so I am with you. But Nissan may consider "isolated instances" as being the Leafs which operate in very hot climates compared to the global population of Leafs.
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:28 am

Pipcecil wrote:What I don't understand currently is how Nissan has publicly stated that the battery capacity losses are isolated incidences and are only happening to a few vehicles. But, if these are isolated, that means the loss is NOT NORMAL. So, if its not normal, our batteries and cells should be replaced. If it is normal, then none of these losses should be isolated to a select few. Could Nissan have talked themselves into a corner? You can't have a few isolated incidences be considered normal in my opinion. Either most people have it happen and its normal, or only a few and its abnormal (and requires replacement and repair).
They are just throwing up every excuse hoping something will stick. It doesn't have to make logical sense:

1) This isn't really happening
2) If it is happening, it is normal anyway
3) Even if it isn't normal, we said that there is gradual capacity loss that depends on a variety of environmental factors and driving/charging habits, so you probably brought it on yourself
4) Even if you didn't bring it on yourself, that's just the nature of lithium ion batteries
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Herm
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:46 am

They cant afford to damage their global investment.. so expect a reaction soon. I'm sure they are following this forum avidly now.

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RegGuheert
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:48 am

Herm wrote:It would be interesting to see if the lost bar affects the trade-in value.
One more thought on this: I'm wondering if the LI-ION GRADUAL CAPACITY LOSS DATA CLEAR command discussed on page EVC-107 of the Nissan LEAF service manual resets lost capacity bars if it is executed on a car with an older battery.

If so, then I suspect some unscrupulous sellers will reset that just as some do with odometers today. The manual says it is only to be executed in the case of the installation of a new battery or a new battery controller, but that won't stop some people.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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surfingslovak
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:50 am

Herm wrote:They cant afford to damage their global investment.. so expect a reaction soon. I'm sure they are following this forum avidly now.
Many people follow this thread, and if the goal was to be heard, we may have shot way past the target. Although I believe that many folks would find more transparency desirable and comforting, this is a competitive industry. If Nissan was indeed temporarily restricting maximum state of charge during hot weather to help protect the battery, I wouldn't expect to see public disclosure of such behavior. Personally, and based on the few data points we have, I believe that it's happening. This could account for up to 5 - 10% of battery capacity. Again, it's just a guess, and depending on the condition of the pack, it might not be enough to bring the lost capacity bars back come fall and winter. I think virtually everyone on this forum is level-headed, and would like to see this program succeed. Let's approach it from that angle.

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Last edited by surfingslovak on Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

myleaf
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:04 am

surfingslovak wrote:
Herm wrote:They cant afford to damage their global investment.. so expect a reaction soon. I'm sure they are following this forum avidly now.
Many people follow this thread, and if the goal was to be heard, we may have shot way past the target. Although I believe that many folks would find more transparency desirable and comforting, this is a competitive industry. If Nissan was indeed temporarily restricting maximum state of charge during hot weather to help protect the battery, I wouldn't expect to see public disclosure of such behavior. Personally, and based on the few data points we have, I believe that it's happening. This could account for up to 5 - 10% of battery capacity. Again, it's just a guess, and depending on the condition of the pack, it might not be enough to bring the lost capacity bars back come fall and winter. I think virtually everyone on this forum is level-headed, and wants to see this program succeed. Let's approach it from that angle.

Image
This is a possibility. Can this be confirmed by checking the battery capacity of a "new" Leaf in AZ or TX ??
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