shrink
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21842
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:27 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
If there turns out that there is actually an issue, I am confident that Nissan will fix it. In the mean time, I would encourage everyone to take a chill pill and let things work themselves out.
I would hope that they do, but since battery capacity is not covered under the warranty, they really don't have to do anything. Owners who have lost capacity bars, some even after a perfect battery check-up, have been told it's normal. People keep saying Nissan "will do the right thing" but that is pure speculation. Loss of capacity bars is fact.

Do you think anyone in Phoenix would have bought the car if they were informed you can lose up to 20% of the capacity of the first year? (I'm basing the 20% on reports of 2 capacity bars lost). No one expected loss of capacity that fast. No one.

For the non-enthusiast, Nissan is selling a $40,000 car (that is what it costs in AZ with taxes) that goes 100 miles, but really only goes 72 miles based on driving style and conditions, etc. But, you shouldn't charge to 100% if you want your battery to last, so you shouldn't really drive 72 miles regularly - maybe 50-60 miles; oh, but don't run the A/C or heat too much; and don't drive too fast on the highway. Better make that 50 miles. Oh and even if you charge to 80%, since the desert heat is a tough on batteries, you might lose 20% of your battery capacity after about a year. So just drive 40 miles. You might not qualify for the $7500 tax credit, but if you do, you have to wait a year to get it. At least it doesn't use gas, right?

If first capacity bar was lost after 3 years; maybe even 2 or 2-1/2, few would complain. Losing capacity this fast after 1-year is very concerning and you are completely out of touch for telling people who spent $40,000 on a car that loses battery capacity this fast to "take a chill pill."
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

DANandNAN
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:25 am
Location: St. Johns/Jacksonville

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:32 pm

Wouldn't it be nice if you could withhold 15-20% of your monthly payment since you're no longer getting what you paid for? Wishful thinking I know.

As a potential (very likely) 2013 6.6 Leaf customer I'm really discouraged by these posts. I hope Nissan builds a better battery pack and adds TMS. And, they better fix these current Leaf's or loose the support from all the early adopters. It's amazing how fast this is happening. Just a few weeks ago the OP, RegGuheert, was getting blasted for creating this thread because there were "only 5". Now there's 18 owners that have posted here from two states :( No way of knowing what Nissan knows or how many owners haven't discovered the forum yet. If heat is the main cause I bet we'll see problems in South Florida, Louisiana and anywhere else it gets hot. Probably not as severe as the AZ folks but still capacity losses earlier than expected. Very bad news for EV and I hope Nissan gets it fixed.
OrientExpress wrote:
shrink wrote:
OrientExpress wrote: At the end of the day, the LEAFs that are in operation in hot weather (and the others in less harsh environments) all over the world, including Phoenix, continue to operate well.
Yeah, they just don't go as far as similarly aged LEAFs in cooler climates. How about we switch cars or battery packs at the end of the summer this year? I only have 10,000 miles on mine. Sounds like a win-win for you.
sure, come on by, and we will put the cars up on blocks and switch them out. :)
Actually, I bet you'll find lots of takers on that offer. Swapping packs at the dealer is way less than the ~$10K that a new pack would cost. So yes, I'm sure you'll suffer from this "non-issue and innuendo" soon enough.

I really don't get how you can say this isn't an issue? Two people (IIRC) in this thread posted an actual loss of miles driven (not the GOM). Do you only drive a few miles per day? Wouldn't a 15-20% range hit hurt? Folks are locked in to their Leaf's and will probably suffer monetarily if they try to get out.
Chevy Volt! - I hate burning gas but the Volt can't be Turtled!
Waiting for a 2013 Leaf w/6.6 or FFE to accompany the Volt and complete our EVolution

Herm
Posts: 3765
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 3:08 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2012
Location: Timbuktu, Mali

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:56 pm

3 bars is 30% degradation, the point considered the end of the battery pack.. suppose Nissan warrants that for 5 years?

Would you guys be satisfied with that?

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:00 pm

I really don't get how you can say this isn't an issue?
I can say that because everything that I have seen here completely antidotal, and essentially subjective laypersons interpretation.

If there is an issue, those that are qualified to make that assessment will do so.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

cwerdna
Posts: 11144
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:13 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
I really don't get how you can say this isn't an issue?
I can say that because everything that I have seen here completely antidotal, and essentially subjective laypersons interpretation.

If there is an issue, those that are qualified to make that assessment will do so.
The loss of a capacity bar isn't anecdotal/from a subjective layperson. It's from the car itself. The behavior is documented in the service manual. The table http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... y_Behavior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; supposedly came from the service manual.

If you really think it's a non-issue, you should really swap cars w/someone in Phoenix who has lost 1 (or better yet, 2) capacity bars.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DANandNAN
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:25 am
Location: St. Johns/Jacksonville

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:14 pm

cwerdna wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:
I really don't get how you can say this isn't an issue?
I can say that because everything that I have seen here completely antidotal, and essentially subjective laypersons interpretation.

If there is an issue, those that are qualified to make that assessment will do so.
The loss of a capacity bar isn't anecdotal/from a subjective layperson. It's from the car itself. The behavior is documented in the service manual. The table http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... y_Behavior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; supposedly came from the service manual.
And, it's documented by folks who's range has already been shortened. It's not anecdotal when there's actual proof.
Chevy Volt! - I hate burning gas but the Volt can't be Turtled!
Waiting for a 2013 Leaf w/6.6 or FFE to accompany the Volt and complete our EVolution

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15053
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:20 pm

Since no one has yet seen that 20-30% degradation yet, there is not yet a reason for Nissan to act. Based on the reports so far we can speculate add to when Phoenicians will see that additional bar disappear and I might think that those might correlate about the same time the first batch of batteries from Tennessee arrive on the market
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
hill
Gold Member
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:05 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0659
Location: Lake Forest, CA

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:27 pm

QueenBee wrote:To add to the speculation I'm sure Nissan is well aware of what's going on and is determining if these cases are real problems and as they are collecting data and researching I'm sure they are planning their strategy on how to respond. I expect a similar response as we got about the initial AC related recall. . . . . . . . . snip
AC reall ?!? . . . . did I miss something ?!?

what AC recall?

.
Last edited by hill on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stoaty
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:28 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Since no one has yet seen that 20-30% degradation yet, there is not yet a reason for Nissan to act.
That isn't entirely true, as there are two Leafs reported to have lost 2 bars (=21.25% capacity loss). Granted these are not as solid as the ones reported as happening to forum members, but still something to consider.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

grommet
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3612
Location: Silicon Valley

Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:28 pm

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3446" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”