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surfingslovak
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:06 pm

djchrispaul wrote:Yes i have lost a bar on the readout to the right of the GOM. both on 100% (11) and 80% (9)
Image
Thank you for confirming that. Would you be able to say if it was the gauge on the very right (14) or the one closer to the GOM (13)?

Image

djchrispaul
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:09 pm

surfingslovak wrote:
djchrispaul wrote:Yes i have lost a bar on the readout to the right of the GOM. both on 100% (11) and 80% (9)
Image
Thank you for confirming that. Would you be able to say if it was the gauge on the very right (14) or the one closer to the GOM (13)?

Image
The bars closer to the GOM, 13 in your pic.

Are people losing a bar from the far right 14 on your pic? Maybe thats what i should watch for, as i said i wonder if its just stopping short because of high temps, but the car has only 4300 miles since september, I think Palm Springs match Phoenix temps.

leafkabob
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:12 pm

djchrispaul wrote:
surfingslovak wrote:
djchrispaul wrote:Yes i have lost a bar on the readout to the right of the GOM. both on 100% (11) and 80% (9)
Image
Thank you for confirming that. Would you be able to say if it was the gauge on the very right (14) or the one closer to the GOM (13)?

Image
The bars closer to the GOM, 13 in your pic.

Are people losing a bar from the far right 14 on your pic? Maybe thats what i should watch for, as i said i wonder if its just stopping short because of high temps, but the car has only 4300 miles since september, I think Palm Springs match Phoenix temps.
Yes, look at the bars on the far right. Check out his thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 47#p207847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kelly

2011 White SL-e (sold back to Nissan on 01/10/2013)
2011Silver SL with new lizard battery purchased used on 9/9/2015
2018 Tesla Model 3 received 4/27/2018

Train
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:20 pm

Before insinuating anything, you might want to check the battery temperature gauge on the Wiki. I believe that owners from Phoenix typically see six bars in the morning, and seven bars in the afternoon. Eight bars were seen after a quick charge, and perhaps also during the heat wave last year?

This implies that the battery temperature is typically somewhere between 98 and 120 F during the summer. As I mentioned before, I would expect battery temps to follow the ambient fairly closely. Vehicle operation can add about 5 degrees, and level 2 charging about 10 degrees on average. And this waste heat can take several hours to dissipate.

The effects of solar loading and radiant heat from the pavement are unclear, and difficult to estimate without an accurate temperature gauge. Judging from owner reports, I would be surprised if these two factors pushed the pack more than 15 degrees above ambient. It's likely a delta of 5 to 10 degrees, perhaps even less than that.
I'm just stating what the air and ambient temperatures are in Phoenix in the summer and that perhaps the temps near the battery may reach 120 degrees.
Last edited by Train on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

smkettner
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:21 pm

djchrispaul wrote:I charge between midnight and 6am.

I'll continue to monitor but its getting hotter by the day here in Palm Springs and will be until October.
I recommend using just the end timer set to 6a. No start time.

If the garage is connected I would be considering leaving the door open to the house at night. Kinda negates the safety code of the door being shut but still.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

djchrispaul
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:44 pm

smkettner wrote:
djchrispaul wrote:I charge between midnight and 6am.

I'll continue to monitor but its getting hotter by the day here in Palm Springs and will be until October.
I recommend using just the end timer set to 6a. No start time.

If the garage is connected I would be considering leaving the door open to the house at night. Kinda negates the safety code of the door being shut but still.
Good point to leave the door open. Also my battery temp guage is at 6 when i drive out in the morning and easily gets to 7.

GRA
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:54 pm

Stoaty wrote:Here is a prescient post from 2010 by Darryl Siry (formerly with Tesla):

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/nissan-leaf-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oh, man, that article will get the class-action sharks salivating, just itching to get into discovery. Mark Perry seems to be doing his usual PR dance.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:15 pm

Train wrote:Ambient temperatures, by definition (what I looked up) would be the temperature of the surrounding environment.

The heat coming off the pavement in summer in Phoenix is way more than 120 degrees. It is close to 150 when the temps are over 100. Temps of 110 will yield about 155-160 on blacktop. On concrete, about 140 degrees That temperature of the "surrounding environment" near the battery, my guess, would be more than 120 degrees. Maybe not for 24 hours but certainly for most of the daylight hours.

The battery packs sit very close to the surface. On the road, I would imagine the temps near the battery would remain near 145-150 or so when it's over 100 degrees (especially when it approaches 105-110. Sitting in a parking lot, I would guess the temps cool somewhat the longer that backtop is shaded by the vehicle.
Further to this, I have some data from the 1940s in the Ca. desert, i.e not on blacktop or concrete, that tends to confirm your suspicions:

Temp at 5 feet, 125 deg. F (standard height where official temp readings are taken)
Temp at 1 foot, 150 deg. F
Temp at 1 inch, 165 deg. F
Temp at ground, 180 deg. F.

I don't have the Leaf's ground clearance handy, but the temp at 1 foot would be the most appropriate to use. Anyway, this just confirms why we used to recommend that our AE customers in hot climates bury the battery pack well below grade on the north side of a building, if they couldn't keep it in a temperature-controlled room.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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DaveEV
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:25 pm

djchrispaul wrote:Are people losing a bar from the far right 14 on your pic? Maybe thats what i should watch for, as i said i wonder if its just stopping short because of high temps, but the car has only 4300 miles since september, I think Palm Springs match Phoenix temps.
Palm Springs is hotter than Phoenix by an average of 4 degrees according to weather.com.

djchrispaul
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Re: How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity in Phoeni

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:09 pm

drees wrote:
djchrispaul wrote:Are people losing a bar from the far right 14 on your pic? Maybe thats what i should watch for, as i said i wonder if its just stopping short because of high temps, but the car has only 4300 miles since september, I think Palm Springs match Phoenix temps.
Palm Springs is hotter than Phoenix by an average of 4 degrees according to weather.com.
Oh great! That's all I need!

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