shrink
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2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Battery

Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:46 pm

Did anyone see this?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/107 ... lls-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

Herm
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:11 pm

Perhaps its a switch to Toshiba's lithium titanate cells, they are heat resistant, long lived and can tolerate fast charging... but they are heavier. The Honda Fit BEV uses these cells.

GRA
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:14 pm

Herm wrote:Perhaps its a switch to Toshiba's lithium titanate cells, they are heat resistant, long lived and can tolerate fast charging... but they are heavier. The Honda Fit BEV uses these cells.
Not according to the original article in Daily Yomiuri Online, which quotes 'Nissan officials' for the switch to Hitachi.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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surfingslovak
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:16 pm

Thank you for catching the article and cross-posting it here. Found the following comment interesting. That said, a change in battery chemistry would certainly hold the promise of solving the premature aging boondongle.
Rich K wrote:I'm very skeptical of this story for a couple of reasons:

1. The engineering involved to change cells AND supplier is not trivial. Design, packaging, battery controller design * calibration; vehicle integration then durability testing would consume probably two years. That means for Nissan to make this change, they would have had to start around two years ago (before the Leaf was introduced). Doesn't seem right to me.

2. Unwinding a joint venture is not a piece of cake. The plant in Japan is jointly funded; I could not find details on the U.S. plant. Parting company with NEC could be hard/expensive

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JeremyW
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:32 pm

From the orignial Japan article:
Nissan Motor Co. will adopt lithium-ion batteries produced by Hitachi, Ltd., a non-affiliated company, for its eco-friendly model to be marketed in the United States for 2013, Nissan officials have said.
Hmmm. Maybe we'll get a different chemistry then the rest of the world. I couldn't imagine that Nissan would throw in the towel on AESC after how much time (and money) they took to make a cell that didn't "need" thermal management and was relatively inexpensive, but perhaps these cheaper cells and a TMS will work out much better for America.

And how much cheaper is cheaper? I want to know the cost for a new pack, Nissan! :shock:

Jeremy
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Nubo
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:09 pm

I think I'm gonna' take it easy on Nissan for awhile. Sounds like some serious changes are in the wind! :o
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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RegGuheert
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:01 pm

I'm going to predict that the Hitachi batteries are not replacements for the current batteries in the LEAF, but rather are for the new lower-cost, lower-capacity entry-level LEAF that has been rumored.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:10 pm

RegGuheert wrote:I'm going to predict that the Hitachi batteries are not replacements for the current batteries in the LEAF, but rather are for the new lower-cost, lower-capacity entry-level LEAF that has been rumored.
A 'lower capacity' battery for the Leaf hardly seems like a good idea in the U.S. anytime, and especially not now. Maybe the same capacity as now, with more from the higher end? On second thought, never mind. Until there's hardware to examine or Nissan says something official, it's all idle speculation.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Stoaty
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:19 pm

RegGuheert wrote:I'm going to predict that the Hitachi batteries are not replacements for the current batteries in the LEAF, but rather are for the new lower-cost, lower-capacity entry-level LEAF that has been rumored.
I am going to suggest that the new, cheaper Hitachi batteries will be in place of the current batteries, which were found to be over-engineered and more reliable than needed. ;)
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RegGuheert
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Re: 2013 Nissan Leaf Electric Car To Use New, Cheaper Batter

Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:25 pm

GRA wrote:A 'lower capacity' battery for the Leaf hardly seems like a good idea in the U.S. anytime, and especially not now.
Agreed. I don't think such a car is intended for the U.S. market.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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