Lothsahn
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:31 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:47 pm
PerformanceMotors wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:39 pm

http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/barloss3/bar1loss.jpg
From your link.. you can see that there was a car that lost the 1st bar at 53ahr.
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Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. I can see why you are a used car salesman.
The link shows that NO car made it to 53 Ahr with 12 bars, and the average of the dataset is ~ 55 Ahr.

The car you are trying to sell has the equivalent of ~ 10.5 bars in a 24 kWh LEAF
Let's not insult people needlessly. His car has 53 AHr left, which, like you say, is equivalent to a 10.5 bar (11 bar) Leaf, not 12. From your link, it shows that the lowest 12 bar leaf had 53.92 AH when it lost its first bar, which typically happens at 55AH. At 53, it's below that threshold.

Since you asked, PerformanceMotors, my 12 bar Leaf has 85.54 SOH and 54.57 AHr. It's about to become an 11 bar car. I could attach a Leafspy, but my reputation is sufficient that I'm not making this up. Additionally, your 9 bar car may be lowering the regenerative braking. If this is happening, range may be further reduced.

PerformanceMotors still has a valid point. He has a car that's very likely (but not guaranteed) to give a person a replacement, brand new battery pack in a 2016 Leaf. Until that point, the car is perfectly useful for many people. That said, PerformanceMotors, your representation of the car has been very over the top, you've insulted a lot of the regulars on the forum, and they've provided you excellent feedback that your asking price is likely too high to garner much interest. None of us are potential buyers, so you don't have to convince us. All we've done is try to warn you that you're not likely to sell the car at the asking price.

I would also state that while it's highly likely that car will get a warranty replaced pack, it's not guaranteed. My Leaf's have typically lost around 2% SOH per year (far below average), likely due to how I treat the car. Others in similar situations might also not qualify.

We've provided you feedback on how you could get the most money for the car. Leftie's feedback about having a warranty replaced battery being better than the current situation is spot on. Buyers don't want a hassle, they want something that works. And while it's not that big of a hassle, it's the same reason you paint and fix up a house before you sell it.

You've categorically rejected all feedback that's come your way and rationalized your way out of it. I truly hope you sell the car for the price you want, and that the buyer is happy. But we've been clear and honest with you about the reality. Whether you listen or not is your decision.

I agree that if you want top dollar for that car, your best option is to continue to drive it until it needs a new battery, get the battery replaced, and immediately sell it with a brand new battery. Even in that situation, I still don't think you can get anywhere close to $15,500 for it. Here's a comparable, 12 bar 2016 SV for $13k from a dealer: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

sendler2112
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016
Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:18 am

Your link sent me to a 16 Leaf S with 33,900 miles for $10,000. It's interesting that almost every used Leaf I see listed at a dealer shows a photo of the gauges with battery health of 12 bars. At least the op in this thread is being honest about the battery health. It is also common to see something like "Brand New Battery!" in the title of the add. But then when you ask them it turns out to be the 12v battery that was replaced. Very misleading. It should be illegal for the other unscrupulous dealers to reset the BMS. But most of them are doing it. This is the same as turning back the odometer on a gas car.
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https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/
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LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13462
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:16 am

It's interesting that almost every used Leaf I see listed at a dealer shows a photo of the gauges with battery health of 12 bars.
It's possible that many more resets are being done. It's also possible that this is the result of two things: most 2016-2017 Leafs that get the 30kwh BMS update show 12 bars afterwards. And they may have wised up and are only showing dash photos of those cars that actually have 12 bars...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:12 am

Lothsahn wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:31 pm
Let's not insult people needlessly.
.
Like this ?
Can any members with a 12bar 24kwh battery leaf post their Leaf Spy screen shot so I can quiet this genius?

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:30 am

sendler2112 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:18 am
Your link sent me to a 16 Leaf S with 33,900 miles for $10,000.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/
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THAT is a deal worth checking out. First sale was 6/2016 so the battery warranty extends out to 6/2024 IIRC that this model has the 8yr/100k warranty. Fair chance that the car would work out to $1,000 a year over its remaining useful life. I'm presuming that the battery gets replaced in 2-4 years.

Lothsahn
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:25 am

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:12 am
Lothsahn wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:31 pm
Let's not insult people needlessly.
.
Like this ?
Can any members with a 12bar 24kwh battery leaf post their Leaf Spy screen shot so I can quiet this genius?
Yes, my statement was to everyone in the conversation, and not solely directed at you.

sendler2112 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:18 am
Your link sent me to a 16 Leaf S with 33,900 miles for $10,000. It's interesting that almost every used Leaf I see listed at a dealer shows a photo of the gauges with battery health of 12 bars. At least the op in this thread is being honest about the battery health. It is also common to see something like "Brand New Battery!" in the title of the add. But then when you ask them it turns out to be the 12v battery that was replaced. Very misleading. It should be illegal for the other unscrupulous dealers to reset the BMS. But most of them are doing it. This is the same as turning back the odometer on a gas car.
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https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/
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My bad. Looked at a few cars, and copy-pasted the wrong one. Here's the one I meant to post:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

PerformanceMotors
Forum Supporter
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:57 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Oct 2019

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:38 am

Maybe I was a little defensive in my response. I don’t think I was offensive to any constructive feedback. But to throw out a low ball price without hard data is insulting. I do have facts and experience to back my claims. The selling point is valid on this car, and that is being missed. I posted this car here because it is unique which I thought leaf enthusiasts could see and appreciate the value added.

Sagebrush, maybe it’s more accurate for me to say that this 9bar leaf has the equivalent range of an 11/12 bar 24kwh leaf. My commute is 70miles on Hwy 280 which is hilly. Roundtrip, I still have 15 to 20% left going 70mph. Performance wise very similar to 2013 and 2014 12 bars I have driven.. could it be slightly less.. sure.. But the, point I am making is that at 53ahr, it’s plenty useable by most leaf drivers. At 53ahrs on this car, it has more capacity then most 24kwh cars on the road today. But no one is buying this for 53ahr. Could I have responded differently to your response.. yes.. that is my bad.

As far as risk in not turning 8 bars… I would say that is extremely low to impossible. Turning 8 bars, extremely high. At current SOH of 66%, it is basically an 8.25Bar (or less) leaf as you put it. The chance of turning 8.0 with normal driving is pretty much guaranteed. With the knowledgeable user, they can track the degradation with leaf spy and adjust with driving style and quick charges to guarantee this. With about 18months, I don’t know how this could not turn 8 bars with the knowledgeable user (which would be the only user to buy this).

In terms if price.. there are 2016 leaf SV’s from $12000 to $16000. I think the value add makes this worth more than the average leaf. Color and HOV eligibility makes this more appealing than the black SV mentioned. To the right buyer looking for a New battery on a 5 year old leaf, this could be worth more than my asking. To some, not willing to take the risk, less. 15500 is my asking. To the right buyer that sees the value add.. feel free to make a reasonable offer that would make us both happy. In the mean time, I’ll continue to drive the car to help guarantee the battery replacement. I will leave it at that. 😊

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:49 am

PerformanceMotors wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:38 am
In terms if price.. there are 2016 leaf SV’s from $12000 to $16000.
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The LEAF mentioned a few posts ago is a blue 'S' Model being offered for $10k.
I don't recall what SV gets a customer compared to an 'S' model. Prospective customers should find out and decide if it is worth a ~ $5k premium.

I do not agree at all with the pitch that an end-of-life battery is worth more than a battery with more life in it. I understand the notion that the chances of gaining a battery replacement via warranty are increased but that argument was a lot more persuasive in the 24 kWh generation. Eight years is a long time.

A trade-off is being offered here: increased chance of getting a battery replacement under warranty Vs an alternative LEAF with more functionality now and the potential for a longer useful life. I'll also add my opinion that Nissan suffers from battery production QC and it is a crapshoot whether one gets a long(er) or shorter lasting battery, all else being equal. A used 2016 LEAF that still has 11.25+ of new range won the battery lottery. OP's car did not, and any future replacement battery is a gamble.

I don't find the trade-off worth extra money ... at all. In fact I think the car should be discounted.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13462
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:46 am

I don't recall what SV gets a customer compared to an 'S' model.

In 2016 it gets the heat pump, telematics, alloy wheels, and available Premium Package.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

PerformanceMotors
Forum Supporter
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:57 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Oct 2019

Re: For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $15500

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:46 am
I don't recall what SV gets a customer compared to an 'S' model.

In 2016 it gets the heat pump, telematics, alloy wheels, and available Premium Package.
How about a 30kwh battery. The S still has the 24kwh.

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