bowthom
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 307
Location: Portland Oregon

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 2:26 pm

Hello,
I consider it a deterrent, It basically makes it cost more than my Prius so I will not be using Blink unless it's an emergency. Also, AV is priced at $2.50 per session but when I used the AV units going to the coast my card was not debited.
Reserv Apr 20 - Ord Aug 31
Red - ETEC trim
BLINK inst 3/14/11 (rev 2.1.2B)
P1213 4/29/11 - Charger repl 6/8/11
P1273 2/15/12 - P32270 10/2/13
TCU upgrd 2/15/17
-1bar 11/14 -2bars 6/16 -3bars 7/18 -4bars 9/19

Deliver 2/23/11 - 75k+ mi

User avatar
Randy
Moderator
Posts: 2161
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:29 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0191
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 2:50 pm

mbender wrote:I'm actually unconvinced that quick-charging couldn't or shouldn't be free to the users all the time (a la the "internet model"). That is, unless I'm doing the math wrong, it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to subsidize the electricity and maintenance solely through advertising and partnerships (with the property owners, utilities &or governments).

Here are some simple calculations, with fairly generous assumptions.

- Each QC delivers 20kWh every 30 minutes in each hour of a day = 480kWh/day
- @ $0.20/kWh = $96/day per charger

Call it $100 per day per charger for the electricity -- probably on the high end, given the $0.20/kWhr rate used and the estimate of 12 hours per day an average unit would be in use.

Now I'm no pricing expert for advertising, but it seems to me that with the big screens on most of these chargers + the captive, well-defined and well-inclined audience, it would be very easy to cover the $100 per day. Wouldn't it? And I'm guessing much more than that could be commanded (adding in cost-sharing with property owners for increased traffic and visibility), which would ideally cover hardware, installation and overhead.

Or am I "way off"? It just seems that if the yahoos, googles and facebooks of this world can swing it, so should the blinks.
I see that you live in California, so I'll point out a big factor that you didn't take into account...

The electrical usage costs (kWh consumed) is not what drives the electric bill in California for these charging stations. The biggest component that Blink or any other DC Fast Charge operator has to pay in the big 3 utility areas in California is the demand charge for the highest peak kW demand that the station draws in a month's time. Think of it as a high water mark of usage for the month in a 15 minute window.

Given the 48 kW output for the Blink initially in a charging session then tapers off as the charge progresses, that peak over a given 15 minute window could be 30-35 kW (I haven't measured it, just an educated guess)...It's not unusual to have demand charges for a station like this be MANY hundreds of dollars per month (especially if there are additional L2 stations in use at the same location). So the actual cost per session does depend on the number of sessions per month, but the real-world figures I'm seeing put the total cost well over $15 per session, sometimes much more than that (depends on how many sessions occur per month. $5 per session represents a bargain as compared to the actual cost for the electric bill (not to mention what the station cost to install at that location).

Of course, we'd all like the cost of a DC Fast Charge session to be less than the cost of gasoline...But in the real world, we don't use them that much so it becomes a convenience factor or a range extension that can be used once in awhile.

Here's another factoid, and this was pointed out by another MNL forum user a long time ago. The first time you use the DC Fast Charge port on the car, the cost will be $700 for the port and $5 for the charge ($705 total). The second time will be $710 total, etc. Don't forget the $700 that the port costs. Even if you never use a DC FC, you've already spent $700 for the port (on the 2011 LEAF at least) You'd have to use the DC Fast Charge port a large number of times at $5 per session to even equal what you or the EV Project paid for the port itself...

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 2:53 pm

drees wrote:
vsaphill wrote:Looks like I will just be using the free L2 at the park-n-ride next to my house at night
And this is why public charging should always have some nominal fee close to the cost of electricity...
Yep. Fees work. It makes people move along, and makes it available for the next driver. And actually pays at token amount of what the taxpayer already invested in.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 3:55 pm

aftabu wrote:Agreed. Flat $5 rate is going to cause people to charge upto 100% and will create bottleneck.
Better strategy should have been

1) 20-30 cent a minute with a minimum fee of $2.
2) Put a upper time limit on how long you can charge ( like 30 or 40 minutes.. This can also vary with capacity). OR no charging allowed beyond 80%.
You may not realize that the '13 QC charges differently from '11-'12s. The '13 will charge to 90% in 30 minutes or less, so time restrictions are good, but not the 80% restriction.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

Luft
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:06 pm
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 5:48 pm

davewill wrote:It sounds like a good deal to me. I was expecting $7-10. I kinda wish they would charge extra for people who choose to charge >80%. That really ties up the station.
Don't worry. It's an "introductory" rate. I'm sure they'll raise it to $1.00 per minute soon enough. When that happens we need to boycott ALL Blink charging stations, even the Level 2 stations.

These people have always been more about extracting money than providing quality service.
Luft
Tenino, Washington
Red SL + QC
Reserved: 05/10/2011
Ordered: 05/11/2011
Estimated Delivery Date: Month of August 2011
Delivered September 17, 2011
VIN # 007166

Luft
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:06 pm
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 5:59 pm

aftabu wrote:Agreed. Flat $5 rate is going to cause people to charge upto 100% and will create bottleneck.
Better strategy should have been

1) 20-30 cent a minute with a minimum fee of $2.
2) Put a upper time limit on how long you can charge ( like 30 or 40 minutes.. This can also vary with capacity). OR no charging allowed beyond 80%.
I don't think most people are going to wait almost an extra hour to get 20% more charge. Some people will but not most. The lower the cost the more likely the average Joe is not going to think that an extra 20% charge is worth another 40 minutes of his/her life.
Luft
Tenino, Washington
Red SL + QC
Reserved: 05/10/2011
Ordered: 05/11/2011
Estimated Delivery Date: Month of August 2011
Delivered September 17, 2011
VIN # 007166

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6753
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 6:59 pm

Luft wrote:
davewill wrote:It sounds like a good deal to me. I was expecting $7-10. I kinda wish they would charge extra for people who choose to charge >80%. That really ties up the station.
Don't worry. It's an "introductory" rate. I'm sure they'll raise it to $1.00 per minute soon enough. When that happens we need to boycott ALL Blink charging stations, even the Level 2 stations.

These people have always been more about extracting money than providing quality service.
Vote with your wallet folks, it is very effective. You are giving them far too much credit.

Luft
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:06 pm
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 7:43 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Luft wrote:
davewill wrote:It sounds like a good deal to me. I was expecting $7-10. I kinda wish they would charge extra for people who choose to charge >80%. That really ties up the station.
Don't worry. It's an "introductory" rate. I'm sure they'll raise it to $1.00 per minute soon enough. When that happens we need to boycott ALL Blink charging stations, even the Level 2 stations.

These people have always been more about extracting money than providing quality service.
Vote with your wallet folks, it is very effective. You are giving them far too much credit.
I completely agree with voting with our wallets and that was the exact point of my post. These people are floating a trial balloon right now. They want to start the bidding at an introductory rate of $5.00 per session. They put out a report to their investors stating that they plan on charging $2.00 per 2 minutes. I guess that means they want to charge $1.00 per minute in two minute increments. I won't pay that much. It's just not going to happen.

ECOtality, being the greedy people that they are, will jack the price up as far as they can. That's the free market and that's fine. But it is our job to let them know that we understand that just because the oil companies have people by the short hairs that's not the case here. Just because oil companies can extract extreme profits from helpless customers that's not the case here. This is just freaking electricity. Period. We have a source in our homes and many of us have a second car such as a Prius.

We also have to be reasonable and understand that DC QC stations are not cheap to install or maintain. ECOtality made the decision to install unreliable monster chargers equipped with giant plasma screens. Okay that was their choice but I as a potential customer do not feel obligated to subsidize their bad choice of equipment.

We need to vote with our wallets. We need to pressure our government to remove excessive demand charges these sites may be forced to pay so that it is possible to for them to provide inexpensive electricity for EVs. If government officials won't do that we need to vote them out and vote someone in who will.

We need to ensure that multiple e-fuel providers cover our cities and highways so that there are real free market forces at work.
Luft
Tenino, Washington
Red SL + QC
Reserved: 05/10/2011
Ordered: 05/11/2011
Estimated Delivery Date: Month of August 2011
Delivered September 17, 2011
VIN # 007166

ITestStuff
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:59 am
Delivery Date: 27 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 406200
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 7:51 pm

EVDRIVER wrote: Vote with your wallet folks, it is very effective. You are giving them far too much credit.
That works where there is competition. For many, Blink QC's are literally the only game in town.

Luft
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:06 pm
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Blink QC charging fees

Wed May 29, 2013 7:59 pm

ITestStuff wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote: Vote with your wallet folks, it is very effective. You are giving them far too much credit.
That works where there is competition. For many, Blink QC's are literally the only game in town.
Yep, and that has got to change.
Luft
Tenino, Washington
Red SL + QC
Reserved: 05/10/2011
Ordered: 05/11/2011
Estimated Delivery Date: Month of August 2011
Delivered September 17, 2011
VIN # 007166

Return to “Blink”