mbender
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:11 am
Delivery Date: 31 Aug 2014
Leaf Number: 309606
Location: The Great California Delta, and environs

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:32 pm

pkulak wrote:
johnrhansen wrote:I think my days of charging away from home are numbered. I charge at home mostly anyway. Just too expensive. If it costs the same as driving a small ice car, why not drive a small ice car and not worry about the range restrictions?
Because I don't want to own two cars?
+1*N. This would be one of MANY possible other reasons. i.e., I suspect that the lower cost of fuel is not the top, let alone the only, reason that most here choose to drive electric. The above question might very well be flipped on its head, and become, "Why would anyone buy an EV if his or her only concern and/or perceived advantage in driving one was the cost of fuel??"
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

mbender
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:11 am
Delivery Date: 31 Aug 2014
Leaf Number: 309606
Location: The Great California Delta, and environs

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:38 pm

Nekota wrote:Using the calculation of energy content seems misleading to me since this calculation omits the heat engine losses compared to the losses in an electrical motor. If you use the max cost of $0.79 per kwhr and a typical 4 miles/kwhr the cost becomes $0.20 per mile which is on par with the gas cost of $4.00/gal and 20 mpg giving $0.20 per mile for gas.
I agree, the energy content calculation is a bit disingenuous. Usable energy content (what, 25%?) might be a bit fairer.

Then, regarding the second "fairer" calculation, aren't we past the 20 mpg average yet?!
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

sky074
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:56 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Oct 2014

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:39 pm

Nekota wrote:Using the calculation of energy content seems misleading to me since this calculation omits the heat engine losses compared to the losses in an electrical motor. If you use the max cost of $0.79 per kwhr and a typical 4 miles/kwhr the cost becomes $0.20 per mile which is on par with the gas cost of $4.00/gal and 20 mpg giving $0.20 per mile for gas.
ahagge wrote:
Fees for Level 2 EV charging stations owned by Blink and operated on the Blink Network in kWh eligible states will range from $0.39 to $0.79 per kWh, depending on the state and individual’s membership status. Fees for DCFC chargers owned by Blink and operated on the Blink Network in kWh eligible state will range from $0.49 to $0.69 per kWh, depending on the state and individual’s membership status.
Let's see - some perspective - 1 gallon of gasoline has roughly 33.7 kWh (per the EPA), so...

- L2 charging: $13.14 to $26.62 per gallon equivalent
- L3 charging: $16.51 to $23.25 per gallon equivalent

OPEC has nothing on these guys! :roll:
In other words, to fully charge a Leaf (24kw) @$0.65 per kw (avg), it will cost 24x0.65 = $15.6 for 75 miles or an equivalent of 3.9 gallons of fuel @ $4 per gallon, which in turn, works out to be 75/3.9 = 19.2 miles per gallon of gas!

It is worse than an average small ICE car.

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walterbays
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:34 pm

sky074 wrote:It is worse than an average small ICE car.
Yes, if you're going to charge 100% of the time at Blink public stations. How do your calculations work out if you charge 95-99% of the time at home with $0.12/kWh electricity, or at home with solar at a feed-in tariff opportunity cost of $0.04/kWh?

GRA
Posts: 11191
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:37 pm

mbender wrote:
pkulak wrote:
johnrhansen wrote:I think my days of charging away from home are numbered. I charge at home mostly anyway. Just too expensive. If it costs the same as driving a small ice car, why not drive a small ice car and not worry about the range restrictions?
Because I don't want to own two cars?
+1*N. This would be one of MANY possible other reasons. i.e., I suspect that the lower cost of fuel is not the top, let alone the only, reason that most here choose to drive electric. The above question might very well be flipped on its head, and become, "Why would anyone buy an EV if his or her only concern and/or perceived advantage in driving one was the cost of fuel??"
They won't, and unless public L2 costs less than gas, people living in apartments with no charging available (like me) will stick with gas. I have about a 5 block walk to a bunch of Blink L2s, and could have just seen using them at $1.00 for 3.3 kWh, or just over $0.30/kWh (after they turned down the charging rate). Now? My 11 year old Subaru Forester typically gets 28-30 mpg on the highway, and gas is down to about $3.70/gallon. Even if it averages $4.00/gallon, I'm getting 7+ miles/$1.00. $0.39/kWh is from the wall, so dividing that by 0.85 to get the true cost/kWh into your battery gives $0.46/kWh, or 7.8 miles/$1.00 at 3.6 miles/kWh (steady 65 mph).

So, while kWh pricing and shorter intervals for time pricing are both excellent changes, the increased cost means even fewer people will use them than heretofore. I will say that the local Blinks have been more reliable recently. After I kept on them about OoS units (at one point 50% were broken), they've now had 100% in service for at least the past month, and maybe 2 months.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11191
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:35 pm

Related, via ievs.com:

"CarCharging Lost $5.60 Per Every kWh Delivered In Q2 2014?"

http://insideevs.com/carcharging-lost-1 ... rter-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

leafo
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:50 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 340188
Location: San Diego

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:41 pm

Too bad for me, as I live in an apartment and charge at a nearby blink station almost all the time and was used to paying $1/hr, which was working out well for me. Now, I believe the best option for me is to charge at EVgo which is $15/month and $0.10 per minute of quick charging, though it'll add about 4 miles of extra miles on my way to work.
Cayenne Red 2014 Nissan Leaf S w/ charge package, financed

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:46 pm

I still feel that, ideally, the cost of public L2 should be no more than gasoline for a 50 mpg Prius. A little less would be better for adoption. Cost-wise, part of the problem is that so many public charging stations are more complex than necessary and thus costly to maintain. Touch screens and card readers seem to fail regularly.

While even the GE Wattstation EVSE is probably more expensive than it needs to be, I like the fact that it's activated through a smartphone app by scanning a QR code, and billing is via PayPal. This reduces potential points of failure at the EVSE. Sure, not everyone has a smartphone or a PayPal account, but that group of people is shrinking rapidly. GE needs to do more to streamline their website and app, but that should come with time. I think "lightweight", WiFi-based EVSE clients will be the way to go. (Keeping on-site WiFi up and running isn't that hard.)
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

ColumbiaRiverGorge
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 2:50 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 4992
Location: Hood River, OR

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:20 pm

This is why I prefer Aerovirnment. $20 a month for unlimited L2 & QCs.
VEGAN & 2011 LEAF Tesla M3 reserved.

sky074
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:56 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Oct 2014

Re: Blink changes billing model for public charging

Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:43 pm

walterbays wrote:
sky074 wrote:It is worse than an average small ICE car.
Yes, if you're going to charge 100% of the time at Blink public stations. How do your calculations work out if you charge 95-99% of the time at home with $0.12/kWh electricity, or at home with solar at a feed-in tariff opportunity cost of $0.04/kWh?
Currently my commute is 76 miles per day. So I would have to charge at work (no free charging at work). No Charge to Charge only gives a max of $1012. At this rate, it won't last for 2 years.

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