greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Blink membership plans & fees

Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:15 pm

oakwcj wrote:Ecotality won the contract with the Department of Energy for the EV Project. Ecotality is a middleman. They didn't give the EVSEs to us. They got a federal contract to do it. The original contract I signed stipulated that I would get ownership of the EVSE at the end of the contract term in return for supplying usage data to the EV Project. The contract specified that it could be amended only with the consent of both parties. Later on, Ecotality entered into some additional contracts with regional air quality agencies, and obviously realized that the contract wouldn't allow them to meet the conditions of their new deals. That's what led them to try this scheme of turning contracts with quite reasonable conditions into the typical one-sided consumer contract used by banks and TV providers. But these EVSEs don't really belong to Ecotality. They're double-dipping by using hardware paid for by the Federal government to facilitate their new contracts with local and regional agencies. If Ecotality came to me and said, please be a good citizen and help the Bay Area Air Quality Management District compile good data, I'd say sure. That's quite a different kettle of fish than letting Ecotality retain title to my EVSE along with the power to unilaterally change the terms of the agreement according to Ecotality's whim. My contract is with Ecotality acting as Steven Chu's agent; it's not with Ecotality, the profit-seeking company.
+1
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11480
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Blink membership plans & fees

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:32 pm

oakwcj wrote:The original contract I signed stipulated that I would get ownership of the EVSE at the end of the contract term in return for supplying usage data to the EV Project.
I thougt they had the right to take it away after the 2/3 year period. But, we guessed that they won't do that.

BTW, one of the problems with something like this is that DOE may ask Blink for more / different data. It would be rather onerous for Ecotality to get an agreement from everyone to make those changes. IMO, if Ecotality had started out with this clause, most would have signed on to it, since as I noted, this is the std practice. Doesn't make this practice any better - but atleast not any worse.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Blink membership plans & fees

Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:49 pm

evnow wrote:
oakwcj wrote:The original contract I signed stipulated that I would get ownership of the EVSE at the end of the contract term in return for supplying usage data to the EV Project.
I thougt they had the right to take it away after the 2/3 year period. But, we guessed that they won't do that.

BTW, one of the problems with something like this is that DOE may ask Blink for more / different data. It would be rather onerous for Ecotality to get an agreement from everyone to make those changes. IMO, if Ecotality had started out with this clause, most would have signed on to it, since as I noted, this is the std practice. Doesn't make this practice any better - but atleast not any worse.
There is no evidence whatever that DOE has anything to do with Ecotality's attempt to make unilateral changes in the RPA. I wouldn't be surprised if Ecotality's contract with DOE actually prohibits these changes.

I would not have entered into an agreement which gave Ecotality unilateral power to change its terms. They have too much leverage in this situation, because they can repossess the EVSE if they terminate the agreement with cause. What you call standard practice is a very recent phenomenon, and is not typical of most contracts outside of the credit card, mobile phone, and TV industries.

Paragraph 6 of the original agreement provides that title and ownership to the EVSE is retained by Ecotality through the term of the agreement. Paragraph 8 provides that at the end of the agreement "ECOtality agrees to transfer ownership of the EVSE to the Participant and allow the EVSE to retain its basic charging capability." There is no ambiguity in these provisions.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: WARNING Blink membership requires new residential agreem

Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:07 pm

OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

saywatt
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:43 am
Delivery Date: 25 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 4701
Location: Issaquah, WA

Re: WARNING Blink membership requires new residential agreem

Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:36 pm

greenleaf wrote:OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?
I would imagine setting up a new account means signing the new RPA agreement.

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: WARNING Blink membership requires new residential agreem

Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:08 pm

saywatt wrote:
greenleaf wrote:OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?
I would imagine setting up a new account means signing the new RPA agreement.
Why would you imagine that, if the person setting up the new account has never signed an RPA in the first place, because s/he isn't a participant in the EV project?
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

User avatar
wsbca
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:33 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2011
Location: SL-E powered by 3KW AC Solar in SoCal

Re: WARNING Blink membership requires new residential agreem

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:26 pm

oakwcj wrote:
saywatt wrote:
greenleaf wrote:OK, so signing up for Blink membership in the same account will require one to agree to the new RPA (residential participation agreement) terms. Has anyone figured out how to avoid this if we still want to have access to the Blink RFID card?

Would creating a new account work? Can I get my spouse to sign up for a separate account?
I would imagine setting up a new account means signing the new RPA agreement.
Why would you imagine that, if the person setting up the new account has never signed an RPA in the first place, because s/he isn't a participant in the EV project?

Quotes above for context...

I just went on to blinknetwork.com and poked at the InCard membership signup procedure. At the payment stage there are checkboxes for both "Terms and Conditions" and RPA Terms and Conditions, both with links. However, they both (even the RPA labeled one) point to the same
page: https://www.blinknetwork.com/terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No mention on that page of the residential agreement, no verbiage such as shown in this thread or the companion thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 4&start=50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). What do you think? Is this an error? Seems to me they might record that you checked the RPA box, thinking they had provided a link to it when they didn't, and that could come back to bite you, or have they perhaps disconnected the RPA from the card membership, with the checkbox being an artifact? In which case why not just remove it instead of changing what it points to.

This refers to signing up for membership when already logged in. The membership signup if not logged in has only the one Terms and Conditions checkbox, with no reference to the RPA, at least on the first page where you supply identification info (but not payment).
I was promised a jet pack!

greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: WARNING Blink membership requires new residential agreem

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:08 pm

wsbca wrote: I just went on to blinknetwork.com and poked at the InCard membership signup procedure. At the payment stage there are checkboxes for both "Terms and Conditions" and RPA Terms and Conditions, both with links. However, they both (even the RPA labeled one) point to the same
page: https://www.blinknetwork.com/terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is a change. Previously I am pretty sure the RPA link did point to the RPA terms.
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

91040
Posts: 1038
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: WARNING Blink membership requires new residential agreem

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:00 pm

greenleaf wrote:
wsbca wrote: I just went on to blinknetwork.com and poked at the InCard membership signup procedure. At the payment stage there are checkboxes for both "Terms and Conditions" and RPA Terms and Conditions, both with links. However, they both (even the RPA labeled one) point to the same
page: https://www.blinknetwork.com/terms-and-conditions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is a change. Previously I am pretty sure the RPA link did point to the RPA terms.
I concur. The RPA terms and conditions link previously took me to a page which had an agreement with new verbiage and conditions. I will not sign up for membership unless it is very clear that my current RPA will not change.
1st Capacity Bar loss 30k mi 16mo
2nd- 49k mi 25.5mo 51.5Ah
3rd- 73k mi 36.5mo 46.9Ah
4th- 86.5k mi 43mo 42.6Ah
5th- 101k mi 50.5mo 38.4Ah, end 36.1Ah
New Battery 9/28/15 104k mi 66.1Ah
1st- 160.5k mi 34mo 54Ah
2nd- 184.4k mi 53mo 49Ah

greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: WARNING Blink membership requires new residential agreem

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:22 pm

Since we wanted to have the InCard, I had my spouse sign up for it and checked very carefully none of the new RPA terms is sneaked into the agreement.
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

Return to “Blink”