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TomT
Posts: 10650
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Leaf Number: 000360
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:49 am

I like XFactor!
TickTock wrote:Perhaps Xfactor, or paramA, or, if we feel we need continuity, maybe "health???" instead.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

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ttweed
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Leaf Number: 1317
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:40 am

drees wrote:I don't think you can read anything into such small changes in the value, you need to look at long-term trends...
I was more interested in why Ahrs went up yet Health/Xfactor went down with the update. GregH was saying "we don't know" what it is but that the Hlth/X number seemed to track with capacity. TomT thinks the number is "biased towards internal resistance of the pack." Certainly, long term trends might be more indicative of what this number really is, but it seems noteworthy that they moved in opposite directions with the update. Is this typical post update? Will my Ahrs drop over the next 3 weeks while Hlth/X rises, or will they both drop, as some have reported?
QueenBee wrote:In a few weeks disconnect your battery and see if anything changes.
You mean the 12V aux./starting battery? What will this accomplish?

TT
Last edited by ttweed on Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
Plowshare Media
2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
Battery replaced at 61,307 miles.

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TickTock
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:02 pm

ttweed wrote: I was more interested in why Ahrs went up yet Health/Xfactor went down with the update. GregH was saying "we don't know" what it is but that the Hlth/X number seemed to track with capacity. TomT thinks the number is "biased towards internal resistance of the pack." Certainly, long term trends might be more indicative of what this number really is, but it seems noteworthy that they moved in opposite directions with the update. Is this typical post update? Will my Ahrs drop over the next 3 weeks while Hlth/X rises, or will they both drop, as some have reported?
TT
Yeah, I saw the same thing. After everything settled in a few weeks, Ah has increased from 45.6 to 47.3 and Xfactor decreased from 62.4 to 51.2. While we know the series resistance didn't magically change as a result of the update, the algorithm may have. I was told that the main change the update provided was more accuracy at higher temperatures - quite possible this would apply to a resistance test, too (or whatever it is that this field represents).

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FalconFour
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:49 pm

That's why I wrote up that long couple posts on the last page. :/

Since I discovered "health", which does make sense as monitoring the internal resistance of the cells, I've been changing my driving habits quite a bit - doing less things that I know put strain on the battery. Since I've been gentle to the car, health has improved at a much more responsive rate than capacity, which is also slowly ticking upwards as well.

A histogram would be extremely useful here, using a persistent database of samples to draw a line graph, filling in whenever the app is open (and automatically interpolating missed samples, like the hours the app's not open, just by recording the time with each sample). Constant logging is impractical, and information in broken chronological order would be misleading. I picture this being implemented by maintaining a small Android database that would easily be maintained (binary-wise) by the OS. The logic would be "if previous sample was over an hour ago, take a new sample and record it in the database with the time, then trim log entries older than [1 month; 3 months; 6 months; etc]". The data could be displayed on a line graph with the time on the X axis, health and capacity on the Y axis.

Then we can start comparing trends, not just values :D
100% gas-free since September 2012
2011 LEAF SL - Sep 2012~Sep 2014 - 35,737 miles
2013 LEAF S+Charge - Jan 2014-Feb 2017 - 68,065 miles
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dgpcolorado
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:10 am

FalconFour wrote:That's why I wrote up that long couple posts on the last page. :/

Since I discovered "health", which does make sense as monitoring the internal resistance of the cells, I've been changing my driving habits quite a bit - doing less things that I know put strain on the battery. Since I've been gentle to the car, health has improved at a much more responsive rate than capacity, which is also slowly ticking upwards as well...
By "improved" do you mean the number has gone up or do you mean that it is dropping at a reduced rate?
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palmermd
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Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Capacity vs Health

Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:14 am

TickTock wrote:It is unfortunate we are calling this "health" at this point. We really don't have a clue what it is and I fear calling it health will cause heart-burn with the folk who are not paying full attention to every post on the forum (like me :-)). All we know is it starts near 100% and reduces with age but at a much faster rate than capacity. Series conductance ratio is a valid theory, but only a theory right now. My leaf is reporting 51.7% for this parameter and I am confident there is nothing I can detect that has degraded 50%. Can I propose until we know more that we call this something else. Perhaps Xfactor, or paramA, or, if we feel we need continuity, maybe "health???" instead.

I agree. Xfactor until it is determined what it really represents.
Michael

Leaf from 31 March 2011 - Traded 18 April 2019 for Tesla Model 3 Unicorn
Driving electric since 1996


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GregH
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:32 am

I'm not sure the Health is directly related to impedance. I will continue to call it health or at least H as that is what it's labeled on the LeafDD. If you need another name, please find something that starts with "H".
On my 2012 with about 90%h the LeafDD shows about 80-90mOhm.
On the 2013 rental with 110%h the LeafDD showed about 50-60mOhm.
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braineo
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:47 am

Your LEAF is telling you to exercise more and drink less soda. :lol:

palmermd
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:10 am

GregH wrote: I will continue to call it health or at least H as that is what it's labeled on the LeafDD. If you need another name, please find something that starts with "H".
Hunknown. the "h" is silent.
Michael

Leaf from 31 March 2011 - Traded 18 April 2019 for Tesla Model 3 Unicorn
Driving electric since 1996


Leaf Bar Loss

91040
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Re: Capacity vs Health

Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:19 am

Hanssens or Hanss.
1st Capacity Bar loss 30k mi 16mo
2nd- 49k mi 25.5mo 51.5Ah
3rd- 73k mi 36.5mo 46.9Ah
4th- 86.5k mi 43mo 42.6Ah
5th- 101k mi 50.5mo 38.4Ah, end 36.1Ah
New Battery 9/28/15 104k mi 66.1Ah
1st- 160.5k mi 34mo 54Ah
2nd- 184.4k mi 53mo 49Ah

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